Dark of the Moon Discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by BluRayHiDef, Jun 22, 2014.

  1. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Posts:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +4
    I just watched a few scenes from Dark of the Moon and there were some things that hit me. So, I wanted to make a thread in which we talk about Dark of the Moon in retrospect. Discussion does not have to be restricted to the following, but may concern any aspect of the film.

    • On the verge of death, about to be dealt a killing blow by his former mentor and friend - The Great Sentinel Prime - Optimus latches onto his mentor-turned-enemy and begs, 'Please, no,' the ultimate act of irony, as the tables were turned just a moment prior. What do you guys think of this moment? I think it's a bit hypocritical on Optimus' part; how can he ask for mercy from someone he was just about to kill. On the flip-side, I felt sorry for Optimus; he seemed so pathetic and helpless begging for mercy like that. I would have preferred that he accepted his fate like a warrior and not ask for mercy.
    • Considering that the robots were animated from scratch in the past three films, meaning that motion-capture was not used, shouldn't the ILM animators be credited as co-directors of the films? For the shots including the robots, all Michael Bay did was shoot the backgrounds and make vague requests in regard to what he wanted the robots to do in said shots; it's not as if he could say 'Cut! Let's do another take. I want you to swivel a little more loosely.' Do you get my drift?
     
  2. LightningBlade3

    LightningBlade3 Destined to be a Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2012
    Posts:
    724
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +375
    I think when Optimus said, "please, no" he was still trying to talk to the good in Sentinel. Like he was saying, "This isn't you Sentinel. I know there's still good in you." In all the times I've watched DOTM, I never felt as though Optimus was begging for his life.
     
  3. RazorX3000

    RazorX3000 Cybertronian Monkey

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Posts:
    6,375
    News Credits:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +18,470
    Ebay:
    I think you're right about Prime. But he was... rather weird in the end of DOTM. He killed Megatron without mercy one handed, and like you mentioned, begged for mercy when he was seconds away from yet another death. And I think ILM should get some kind of major mention in the credits. And, I'm through with DOTM. I can't really watch it anymore. I only re-watch it on Blu-Ray for the action sequences. Can't stand the long boring human interaction scenes. Lol, BUT I wanna prepare for Extinciton! So, I'd rather talk about AOE, then DOTM at the moment. :) 
     
  4. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Posts:
    4,137
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,516
    Have you considered that Optimus wasn't begging for his life, but begging his former mentor to regain his senses and not work an entire sentient species to death trying to save a dead planet? Just a thought...
     
  5. YanderePrime

    YanderePrime Autobot

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Posts:
    598
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +150
    Think about it for a second. Optimus and Sentinel must have been working together for centuries. Sentinel was Optimus' teacher. He just couldn't believe Sentinel was capable of such evil. It was just one last desperate plea to reach to Sentinel but Sentinel was too far gone.
     
  6. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Posts:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +4
    I don't agree. It's too convenient that he'd make one last plea to reach out to Sentinel's good side while moments away from being killed by him. I strongly believe that he was merely begging for his own life, like a hypocrite and a coward. This scene is the single worst depiction of Prime in the movies; it portrays him as a cowardly charlatan.
     
  7. JeSouhaite1013

    JeSouhaite1013 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Posts:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Likes:
    +1
    It's been a while since I have seen this but when I watch DOTM I thought Optimus was ultimately begging for Sentinal not to go through with the entire plan i.e. slavery and such, and not begging for his life.


    Nope, ultimately Bay and Co get to say what the robots do and can ask for changes. I think ILM should get A LOT of credit for their work though, just not co-director. I have to wonder though, if ILM became co-directors would people also willing to blame faults of the film on the co-directors (ILM), or will it still be a Bay-bash? I am assuming it will still be a Bay-bash because of the amount of control he has over the whole project, hence he's the director with no co-directors.
     
  8. YanderePrime

    YanderePrime Autobot

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Posts:
    598
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +150
    It's not really a new thing, many heroes sometimes do this in film.
     
  9. ChaosDonkey

    ChaosDonkey Lord Brain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Posts:
    1,963
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +439
    Or did he just find out that Sentinel doesn't show mercy, neither should he.
    He already got that lesson from Megatron before.
     
  10. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Posts:
    13,222
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    236
    Likes:
    +20
    I have still not see DOTM... (I'll get around to it one day).

    But I really like the extreme reaction people have to it - can anyone say if they ever book marked any funny reviews - maybe a podcast diatribe - I find it comedic gold when people go off on one over 'Deep Wang' etc...

    I'd like more Brad Jones / Spoony style fun any one able to recommend anything like that - I'm not so keen on the gushing like Man of Steel Transformers reviews are better if it's ripped to bits (regardless if it may or may not deserve it) I just enjoy the expression of frustration as a from of Entertainment.

    I find for example lots of people hate JP2 (I never really saw why) but it's fun to see people be mean about it anyway. same with ROTF/DOTM
     
  11. BluRayHiDef

    BluRayHiDef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Posts:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +4
    Do you guys think it would be feasible to make an entirely CGI Transformers film with the quality and setting of Dark of the Moon's opening sequence? How much do you think such a movie would cost to make?
     
  12. Timothy.R

    Timothy.R Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Posts:
    10,328
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +1,549
    i don't think ILM should get a directors credit at all.. they simply create the transformers.. bay still directs the robots that they're creating.. that's why they have soooo many video/in person meetings.

    as for prime begging.. i think it was both.. begging for his life and sentinel to stop doing what he was doing.. and CLEARLY sentinel had no intention of changing.. sentinel didn't grant mercy to prime.. so, prime didn't grant mercy to him.

    i think prime begging for sentinels good side makes a little more sense.. prime has CLEARLY shown that he doesn't mind dying for the cause.. that was VERY clear in the first movie.. and he even died in the second movie fighting to save sam.

    plus.. prime knows that if sentinel were to kill him, sentinels plan would continue.. i believe prime cared more about others than he did for himself.

    i don't think it was cowardly at all.. it was one last attempt by prime to reach sentinel. it makes sense for prime to do ANYTHING at that point.

    even primes last line to sentinel "you betrayed yourself".. sort of also makes sense if you think prime is begging for him to be good again.
     
  13. Toadalinakong

    Toadalinakong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Posts:
    233
    Trophy Points:
    82
    Likes:
    +85
    Ebay:
    There'd be a lot less cast and crew so I think that could be a possibility honestly, and holy hell would it be awesome.
     
  14. Mospeada

    Mospeada Since '84

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Posts:
    2,271
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +9
    I think "Give me your face" is the worst moment for Prime.
     
  15. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Posts:
    2,485
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +418
    I agree with this sentiment. It's like watching someone you looked up to falling away from what you were taught by them.

    I actually found that part of the film the one area where I actually 'felt feelings' in a big way. Surely one would seem disappointed and saddened to have someone they respected slice off your arm and start dragging you and beating you around.
     
  16. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Senior Robotic Citizen

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Posts:
    1,564
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +1,272
    To be clear he does not say "Please ,no" he just says "please", it seems like optimus as mentioned could not comprehend how evil his master had become, I mean optimus did say the word please in the middle of how Sentinel was talking about how he would be the only "god" on earth. Anyway i wasnt as uppset from that optimus please quote as much as I was upset at how optimus(bay) killed Megatron after he conveniently saved Primes life.
     
  17. Timothy.R

    Timothy.R Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Posts:
    10,328
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +1,549
    i don't mind either of those.. i love the part when megatron says "who would you be without me prime?".. then prime says "time to find out".. i love that part lol.

    the one part that i have ABSOLUTELY HATED that involved prime was the end of the first movie, and i'll never get over how much i hate it. .. well, i also hate prime getting thrown right after he says "one shall stand, one shall fall", and we don't even get to see him say it.. anyways, the part that i ABSOLUTELY HATE is when prime is laying down while megatron is crawling over sam.. and sam shoves the allspark into megatrons chest.. well.. right after that, prime suddenly has the strength to get up then has the balls to say "you left me no choice brother".. ARE YOU KIDDING ME... left you no choice but to lay on the ground while a human saves your life/the world?.. give me a break.

    i ALWAYS hated that moment.
     
  18. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Posts:
    11,214
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +5,964
    I see what you mean about Optimus, but what I got from his "please no" line is more like he didn't want Sentinel to complete his mission in enslaving earth.
    Optimus had grown a bit accepting with the human race and couldn't understand why Sentinel had changed so much from the respected mentor he once knew.

    It was a great desperation and time of chaos while Optimus and his allies, the humans as well, were all collaborating in ending the battle in Chicago.
    Even at Sentinel's mercy Optimus still believed in Sentinel's good morals.


    As far as the animators over at ILM being considered co-director that probably won't happen since they simply work to bring the characters to life and how they will interact within a real environment.

    To be honest it be nice if more credit went to ILM, or at least longer interviews, animations and what not in the special features. The team working for ILM are just as talented as Bay and his car/model commercials.
     
  19. Primal1987

    Primal1987 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Posts:
    4,760
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +385
    This. I remember on the Documentary for the first movie that in the original script, Prime was to kill Megatron with the Allspark (an outcome that was used in the video game). It was Spielberg that suggested that Sam be the one to do it for some reason.

    Prime's line "You left me no choice" was probably a leftover from the original ending, only it's placement in the final cut feels odd.

    "You left me no choice, Brother. I intentionally bumbled on the ground, yelling at Sam to shove the cube in my chest and not use it on you. That was part of the plan. Reverse psychology, bitch!"