Controversial Opinion: Transformers should go back to Marvel.

raindance773 · Feb 7, 2021

StrifeZ said: ↑

The problem isn't what IDW has done. The problem what IDW is doing.

Transformers had been among, if not their top book. It had their best artists and best writers. Overall, it had the best production values, and the world building going on was among the best in comics. And this went on for years and years. But really, with the start of the RID / MTME era, and everything that came after, it was the goldage of Transformers comics. They did so well they spawned the whole "Hasbroverse spin off comics". GI Joe, MASK and so forth. Those did not do well. They ended, Transformers continued.

Thing is, Transformers sold great for IDW, but never really sold great compared to basically anything else. The last time it regularly peaked above 11,000 units sold per month was 10 years ago. It spent most of the 2010s in the 10k range. Nowdays, its going down to 9k. Back in 2007, it was selling around 15k. The franchise objectively has 30k seller all over, hanging around the mid 70s. But it's never happened in recent times at IDW. For contrast, Power Rangers was doing about 18,000 units pre-Covid.

IDW shut down the Hasbroverse, then shutdown that entire IDW Continuity. Why? Well there are certainly creative reasons why. They had written themselves so far off the bread and butter of the franchise that there simply was never a realistic return to it for a clean start. It had gotten very continuity thick. And with the franchise wide emphasis on "War for Cybertron" via Siege/Earthrise/Kingdom, it would be a very unnatural fit for synergizing the comic books as they were with the new toys.

But the other reason is Transformers probably got a lot more expensive for them. They used a lot of artists for a lot of years (that got pricer). The longer artists work on a given book, the more they ask for for pay in order to keep working on it. Want to know why many of our favorite artists of yesteryear no longer work at marvel and only select big name ones do (Mark Bagely, Salvador La Rocca, among others)? This is why. Leinel Francis Yu just priced himself out of X-Men in the last few months.

The old IDW continuity was gifted with consistent artists, with work intensive art styles, for years on end, and they produced in my view the best looking comic on the shelves. A comic though that solid 9500 units. Let's put that in context. Before digital, a comic would bring in $37,905 in revenues at that price. What are the creative costs of making that book? Very established artists can make mid-to-high triple digits per page, for 20 pages. Mid-tier artists, about $200-$250 per page for 20 pages. New artists who need the work, between $85 - $150. So just for art, 20 pages at $200 = $4000, whereas at $85 it's $1700.

Marvel makes use of this a lot, which is why so many of their pencilers have been at the company for a handful of years. It's cheap talent. It's not that they couldn't get the best pencilers of the past 30 years. They elect not to except for special events. One of the best examples of this is Oliver Copiel, one of their best artists of the past 20 years. When he was getting established, he was a workhorse. Nowdays? They give him a cover, and a miniseries, and an occasional run. He's at the top of his creative skills, but he's also been working for Marvel since the early 2000s and rightfull demands the pay commensurate with that.

We obviously don't know what the "old" IDW artists got paid, but the pattern we see at IDW is the same as Marvel. They do miniseries, fill ins and one-shots now. They're doing commissions, but generally aren't doing major work elsewhere. They are "available". Instead, IDW has seemingly replaced them with cheaper talent harvested from the internet. The modern IDW Transformers comics generally look very bad. They're also almost certainly far cheaper to produce. Simply, the Transformers artist with dozens of issues under their belt is going to be pricer than the artist with an Instagram account and a lot to prove. But equally, a business case can be made for doing that, because Transformers sells 9500, not 3000. Why should a book cost more if it is going to sell the same regardless? Why should IDW pay $200 per page rather than $85?

Personally, my gut tells me IDW doesn't give a fig about the licenses with Hasbro anymore. Certainly not like it did a number of years ago, when it was at the center of their publishing strategy. Now, everything about them has an air of "passive aggressive contractual obligation / it pays the bills". But IDW is also hanging on by a thread.

So what's the solution for Transformers? Going to Marvel won't do anything. It'll be the same thing, just with a Marvel logo on it. It'll be a little league for cheap new talent. DC will never take it - they're massively de-emphasizing print and cutting to like 35 printed books a month. Boom will just be IDW mark 2. The best, and most cost effective route, is for Hasbro to hire freelancers tand push it through some kind of "Hasbro Pulse" app as a digital only (along with their cartoon library, and other franchises), but that requires such a platform to exist.

But really nothing can save Tranformers comics, because it is a comic book, and the entire industry, which amazingly is so inbred that it has completely failed to advance the state of the industry even while super hero movies are the largest audience draws in the world, is probably doomed. In the end, the problem isn't Transformers and IDW. The problem is every Direct Market store (Comic book store) and the industry's absolute subservice to protecting their existence and catering to an increasingly older reader, at the expense of expanding their audience and commercial markets.

If IDW is still around in 10 years, Transformers will have new, cheap talent then, probably be on its 3rd reboot, and be selling 7500 units. Because the slow decline is what comics is all about nowdays.

Frankly, I think in it's own way, the big break between the end of phase 3 with Endgame and Spider-Man FFH, and the start of Phase 4 with Wandavision and it's new direction (especially the movie/TV synergizing) is going to end up being very very very good for the MCU, completely unplanned as it was. Endgame was such a definitive end to a thing, the only move is to make what comes next just completely different, and the a crucial componenet of that is seperation and time, so it isn't compared. Like imagine if Covid never was a thing Black Widow premiered in May 2020 as originally planned. The focus would be on "Black Widow 2 when" and "Avengers 5", not what-the-actual-fuck is going on in Wandavision. It would have felt more like a coda, than a new beginning. Wandavision feels like a fresh start.
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Spot on for both points - Transformers isn't even that big a fish compared to some of the other flagship titles.

As for the hard break of Phase 3 and the beginning of Phase 4 - it was absolutely great for Disney and their MCU because it lets them really start fresh. Not a reboot, not a soft reboot. Literally a sequel and great jumping on point.

Maximus Danz · Feb 10, 2021

No for one simple reason.

Marvel of the 80's isn't the same as the Marvel today. You think IDW is bad? Marvel will make the books unreadable.

CaptainButtocks · Feb 11, 2021

No for one simple reason - sales.

Marvel typically cancels books (ongoings, they set lesser targets for minis) when they fall under the 18-25k sales figures (some which are strong digitally or in trade get a reprieve a la that Iceman or Runaways series). For the cost of the license, PLUS a strong creative team, the book (which last i saw did around 9k) would have to increase it's sales by a ridiculous margin to be worthwhile. Now it *could* be done, they've had success with Star Wars, but Star Wars is a much bigger franchise than Transformers.

The sales charts dont include digital, but digitally the books do not seem to be as strong as they were circa 2016-2017.

For my part - I find a lot of Marvel's books unreadable these days due to the placement of the adverts (DC are terribe for this too). Some books over Christmas had 16 pages of ads in with 22 pages of story. At least IDW, Image, Boom etc keep them all to the end and the books flow a bit. (Obviously if you read digitally it's no problem, but digital comics are poorer value for money)

Ultimately - Marvel comics mostly exist now to provide content ideas for films in 15-20 years time (see X-23, Miles Morales). If Marvel genuinely wanted Transformers, they would have it by now.

Megastar · Feb 11, 2021

So would Nemesis Prime be Optimus with a symbiote?

That one cybertronian · Feb 11, 2021

Not a good idea, current marvel only has a couple good storylines out and treats some of there head characters like crap *cough aaron Thor *cough so I don’t transformers would be treated well in modern marvel

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Controversial Opinion: Transformers should go back to Marvel.

raindance773 Well-Known Member

Maximus Danz Trying to achieve something

CaptainButtocks Well-Known Member

Megastar Well-Known Member

That one cybertronian Member

Log in or Sign up

Controversial Opinion: Transformers should go back to Marvel.

raindance773 Well-Known Member

Maximus Danz Trying to achieve something

CaptainButtocks Well-Known Member

Megastar Well-Known Member

That one cybertronian Member

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