Funny enough, that is Spoiler: Novel Continuity near what happens in the Trek EU Novels of the last several years. Data's mind ends up in a advanced Human-like android body that Dr. Soong was using for himself up till then.
You've only addressed irrelevant differences between the two cited situations, so you are coming off as deflecting, whether or not that was your intention. And I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I'm just explaining how I see it. My point remains, if Data could be completely disabled by such minor damage, I don't see it being a stretch an android could be killed by something relatively that minor as well. It sets a precedence. I'd say he could be fairly vulnerable actually. Data got stabbed clean through his torso in "Thine Own Self" pretty easily. Yet, machine gun fire was no problem for him in "First Contact". Again, whatever serves the purposes of the story. And it's not like anyone ever tried to stab him in the eye... Why would flesh and blood have Data's skin and eye color at all? And I'd find it hard to believe they could make flesh androids just after the Mars attack, when Dr. Jurati had said they were thousands of years away from that level of technology. Despite Maddox and Soong obviously somehow figuring it out in just a few years... It'd still take them some time to develop that technology. I'd say the series is completely vague on the subject actually. They never used a term like "synthetic biomatter" as far as I'm aware. We know they're somehow flesh and blood but... that's really it. They never exactly explain how they're made, or what exactly they're made of. Nobody ever pulled out one of Data's eyes, nor did we see any other components removed from Saga for a true comparison to be made here. I'm referring to my earlier point that sometimes writers do something that's a little too easy for the purposes of the story. Some of their abilities perhaps, like super strength, but they could also do things even augments wouldn't be able to do. Like in the first episode, Dahj could somehow inexplicably tell the Romulan hit squad was on the way, before they even beamed in.
I guess we’re gonna have to agree to disagree because I’m seeing a retail world difference between the Deliberate severing of key pathways (Regardless if they made them up for this particular episode) and the stabbing of an eye as being comparable But I can certainly see your point about how the Writers will write what ever weakness into any story if it serves their needs I feel the skin color thing is just reflective of some of them being early models......The others may have simply been Bruce and Antons choice And I also feel Anton Had been at work on the Biological bodies tech for years No they really don’t spell it out but I thought it was fairly obvious from the start and certainly when we saw Anton’s Golem To make it short he’s learned how to use biomatter like clay and mold it into any form he wants I really feel how it was present it was more than enough to come up with a conclusion but again that’s just my opinion Thank you that cleared things up Well that would be technological, I think even Picard touched on some of that in one of the episodes, likely her Positronic brain maybe taping into some security feeds or a early Transporter detection technology That was something We had comments about every now and then another series but they never really employed very often.
Spoiler You're leaving out Sutra deliberately and purposefully killed Saga as a means to motivate the others to call in the extra-dimensional synthetics. I feel it's reflective of them being earlier models as well... before they started making them flesh and blood. Spoiler It's also worth pointing out, Soong used a device that deactivated Sutra when he confronted her about killing Saga, which I'd have to say is a good indication she was technological. I'm not seeing how you think any of it would be obvious. Again, the series is completely vague about all of it. And calling the body a golem I'd say was meant to be taken metaphorically for it's intended purpose, not as an indication of how it was made. As far as the series explains, Dahj was completely flesh and blood. She wasn't technological for that to make sense.
Started my free trial yesterday and I’m already on episode six. For the lost part I’d say it’s at least entertaining but it’s not Star Trek, at least not good Star Trek. I’m glad I’ll get to watch it but happier I didn’t pay to watch it.
What happened to Nerak at the end? Hope Narressa comes back, she was a good villain. The super synths looked like the same tentacles that came from the future and modified tge probe in disco so I'm assuming it's the same threat. Rolled my eyes at seven and smokey at the end (forget her name). Did they even share any screen time at all? What was the point of the cube in all this? What did soji learn from it? Why has agnes been let off scott free for murder? What are the repercussions of discovering the romulans hacked the synths and triggered the mars attack? Will picards housekeepers just keep waiting forever while he jets off around the galaxy? This series could have just been the last four episodes really.
I didn’t leave that out I just don’t see how it’s pertinent to this particular conversation Spoiler After all when they disabled the data they had their own Evil purpose Spoiler I see no reason to make that the only conclusion , I’m fairly certain he would’ve been able to place that ability into any poditronic brain.....Inside of any container Maybe it’s obvious to me due to the fact that I read up a lot about the possibility of one day being able to make 3-D printed replacement organs including those made by biomaterial.....And with all the 3-D printers we saw it’s possible I just drew a connection Being the recipient of a transplant you can understand why it seems like an interesting topic to me And I find the use of the word golem to be pretty literal in this case considering we see that Anton was working on a blank slate body with no real Discernible features Say that takes this way back to one of the early conversations that has been had on this topic here The series told us that the brains of the twins,And presumably the rest of them, were based on Datas positronic brain which indicates it’s artificial/technological
I have to go back to saying you've completely missed the point I'm making then, because that's kind of a big point of it. I see no reason to believe they all had positronic brains when it's established some of them are flesh and blood. That's not something established in the series though. Again, we have no idea how these androids are created in the first place to know if it'd even be a process similar to that, or if it's something entirely different. A literal golem is a creature made of clay or some-such inanimate material brought to life by magic. This is a living organic body. It may have been a blank slate to begin with, but again, that's using the term as a metaphor. No, what they explained was that through the process of "fractal neuronic cloning" they could reconstitute "Data's entire code, even his memories, from a single positronic neuron". In other words, they just needed to be able to make copies of Data's programming.
The point you’re trying to make is that the writers will do anything to suit their plot Because they clearly established that they are all based on Data’s positronic brain Without that are are they even Synthetic and not just your run-of-the-mill clone type Let’s hope they explain further and magic is often described as a Technology we just don’t understand yet so Anton took The inanimate bio-matter (Clay) and brought it to life by his Technology (magic) that's using the term Quite literally if you ask me aside from biomatter substituting for clay From what I recall Bruce’s assistant said “Fractal neuron cloning” was a Technique a for a positronic brain to be created entirely just one positronuc neuron From a previously functional positrinic brain Nerons are cells, Physical cells not just programming, so they needed To clone a physical material from the copy of his programs he put into his brother B4 Sounds to me like the twins and the others are positronuc brains wrapped in organic bodies, Or at the very least the neurons in question are artificial
That's part of what I've been saying, but no, that's not the point I'm talking about. What they established was that their programming is based on Data's programming. More on that below... The series never actually establishes them to have positronic brains. They're actually meant to be indistinguishable from humans. The idea behind that phase is that to a less advanced people, any sufficiently advanced technology would seem like magic. But this is still technology invented by humans we're talking about here. It's not something that'd seem like magic to them. "Biomatter", as you keep calling it, also wouldn't be inanimate. The term biomatter actually means it's something of biological origin in the first place. So, assuming it is actually "biomatter", it'd have to already be alive for Soong to make a living body with it. Again, there's nothing literal about using the term golem for it, it's a metaphor. She doesn't say anything about it being able to create a positronic brain, only that it can reconstitute Data's code and memories, as I already pointed out. Here, I dug up the dialog: It wouldn't make any sense they could "clone" physical material from Data or B4. Androids like them are made of inanimate material, there's nothing capable of being physically cloned in that manner. The only thing they'd be able to "clone" would be the programming stored within it. Although, I feel the idea they could reconstitute Data's entire code and memories from a single neuron doesn't work either.
I give this series credit for trying to move the Star Trek timeline forward, rather than Discovery's attempt to force itself into the past. Also, choosing to focus on Data's potential to form a race of synthetic beings sounds both fairly reprsentative, both of how things have evolved beyond TNG and of a core point of Star Trek: finding a new race and making connections with them. There are some points I didn't really care for, but on the whole the highs of this show overrule the lows on my side. But now that this arc is majorly concluded, I hope to see a better, more classic exploration of the universe from Picard's crew. I ideally hope to see Q appear and mess with Picard again. Q was the closest to an archrival Picard had, he deserves to be brought back. Spoiler Glad to see Riker is back. I think he can be a great successor to Picard and fix things where his former commanding officer couldn't. And thankfully Altan Soong had a better sense of morality than he first appeared with. Data's version of final death, of passing on through his memory sticks being withdrawn from a computer, doesn't really feel final since they could be put back easily and so he could return. But as it is, it stands as a means of closure for a character who wanted to be human. And he'll be reunited with his daughter so that's nice.
If you’d like to elaborate and please do I feel what they established was that the physicality of their brains were also based on data’s physical brain.......even if they used biological material to construct it it would seem they used positeonic cells I doesn’t have to seem to appear as magic to these people And “ Inanimate” doesn’t just mean not alive or not of biological origin, limestone is of biological origin and I wouldn’t call it alive and many would argue that trees and plants are inanimate even thou obviously alive inanimate often refers to not being like humans or animals when it comes to being alive :no locomotion I still see the term go on being used more literally then metaphorically Thanks for finding the dialogue but prior to that exchange she said “If you had datas neural net Perfecting a human host body would be relatively simple Picards says Datas Neurons dies with him Yeah well seems you’re talking more real world science now And in recent years Trek has moved more twards the “fantasy” in storytelling then it has in the past, Or maybe it’s more accurate to say the Writers aren’t putting in the effort to find a more scientific way to explain what they want to do Seems for the Purpose of this issue a positronic Neuron is akin to those of our own.....Physical cells, And since we never really got an answer as to what made Data alive to begin with Perhaps those cells are not exactly inanimate I kind of agree with your last point also, but I guess the idea that all that Data was can be rebuilt from one Neuron is similar to the idea that human knowledge is also contained in any cell that we have seen in other Science fiction stories
They would have to use a lot of that anti-aging technology, the Q should not age Spoiler Reunited with his daughter? Why would you think that? Which daughter? If you mean the first daughter he downloaded her memories into his head long ago
I was referring to Lal from TNG. And having someone's memories isn't the same as having their soul. Memories are records, a soul is an essence of identity.
Just have Q appear older and make a comment that he knows how vain humans are so he aged himself appropriately so Picard wouldn't feel put off.
Some would argue that memories are the essence of identity.After all what is your identity if not the Accumulation of all your life experiences ?More often than not memories are far more than just records Not everybody believes in the Judeo Christian concept of a soul, (or that of any religious concept at all) And many that do would argue that anything man-made (Artificial) could not have a soul
Yeah I considered something like that, but Q seem to be even more vain than most humans Considering that particular aspect of his personality I don’t see him adopting the older human appearance the entire episode
Maybe, but picard is the closest thing he has to a best friend, and I'm sure he would love to constantly unnerve him by doing it. Sometimes small allowances have to be made for real life. Either that, spend the entire budget deaging him all the time, or just not have him in it.
Did I miss-hear or did someone say Vulcans and or Romulans were not a Native Species to Vulcan (originally) at one point ? Also I take it no one is going to actually arrest anyone for all these random Murders the crew likes commiting either ?
