Captain Picard returns to tv...

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by pinoy78, Aug 4, 2018.

  1. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Even for an android disabled and dead or two different things, Data was repairable.Saga was not
    Can’t exactly disagree with you there
     
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  2. BB Shockwave

    BB Shockwave Well-Known Member

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    More like it absorbed Doc Ock, given the tentacles with claws at the end. :) 
    Mass Effect always left me cold, so I dunno what those games are about at all. I know it is a lot like Halo with humanity using some other ancient race's stargate thingies? And it has CGI sex scenes with purple skinned Trek girls. That's most of what I know. :p  I loved Dragon Age Origins but to me, Bioware seems to have gone down the console drain afterwards, making RPGs with simplified combat systems and then even more simplified conversation systems. Never played the third one and I stopped playing Mass Effect early after getting annoyed by the whole cover based shooting combat.

    Dude. Your hatred has blinded you. Are you seriously clamoring for a win for EA, the most evil and terrible game publisher there is?

    We see Elnor knocking out several synths when they try to destroy the relay. Remember when that Klingon captain tried to headbutt Data? :D  Elnor would have broken his hand trying to knock out a real android.

    Guess you forgot this episode?
    The Schizoid Man (episode)
    Uploading one's consciousness to an artificial body is something that has been done before.
    Once by Soong, too.
    Juliana Soong was still Juliana Soong despite now existing as an android (even without knowing what she was). Picard is still himself, too. His consciousness was copied over before he was brain dead.
    What is "Jake-Luke bad"? I assume you mean Luke Skywalker, but who is Jake? Jake Sully from Avatar?

    I... never cared for that romance. It was a late season "geez what have we not tried yet?" idea and it came out of nowhere. I always felt if Seven should have have a relationship with anyone, it should have been the Doctor. Similar to how in TNG Season 7 they did that out of nowhere relationship between Worf and Troi... it had some basis because Worf did see her a lot for advice with Alexander, but I was glad when the movies had Riker and Troi marry. I was shipping those two hard since season 1 when I saw the show as a kid. :D 

    Yeah that seemed strange to me too. I looked it up but Vulcan IS the homeworld of both Vulcans and Romulans, the species developed there. So this was likely a script error.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  3. Ramberk Magnus

    Ramberk Magnus Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's over! At least season 1 is. I guess I'll start with the positives and then the negatives. Spoilers ahead.

    Positives. Great character moments. New characters started to grow, become more likable and mesh better as a crew as the season developed. Patrick Stewart did NOT phone it in. You really felt Picard's regret, fear, anger and happiness.

    Negatives. The overall plot was not that strong with too many short cuts because of the short episode count. The Federation went from slamming the door on Picard to believing him (with no evidence?) to providing him with an ARMADA OF SHIPS at the drop of the hat. All in the span of like three episodes? Having a secret synth society seems like a huge deal in Trek fiction but it felt like it got treated like some simple trade negotiation. The premise of the show is how the Federation banned synths but one big speech and grand gesture gave Star Fleet the motivation to just ignore Synths and leave Picard in charge of figuring out what to do with them. I guess...

    Interesting points...
    - She aint dead. She was a standout villain. Absolutely hate-able in the right kind of way. Breakout character but I can't remember her name.
    - Elnor. Sappy orphan kid in the body of a super assassin. I love this kid. I think if the acting and writing were tweaked differently, I would despise the character though.
    - OMG, I'm glad the Super Synths were a "one-and-done" villain. Ugh. The visuals were cool, though clear gothic horror homages.
    - Robot Picard. So dumb. There was no emotional impact to his death. The plot related to his health was handled poorly because we weren't emotionally invested in it. Folks do realize that this is just a copy of Picard. Trek didn't invent the technology of taking a person's "soul" and transferring it to a cybernetic organism.

    I'm glad we got the show. I look forward to season 2, especially since they can focus on smaller, lower stakes stories that are more satisfying but yeah, season 1 was kinda schizophrenic.
     
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  4. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Good catch

    Even with the increased strength of Romulans I just don’t see any reason why he could have been engaging that many “data type” androids in a fight
     
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  5. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    You're assuming the new synths had identical construction to Data, when everything we see and are told points to the opposite. The new synths are built in a way to make them much closer to being indistinguishable to human.
     
  6. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but they explained it that was my way of making them flesh and blood

    the ones we see in the mars flash backs seem to have been built the same way as data, Although I don’t know about the materials

    but all the ones we see on that planet?......They all seem to be of the flesh and blood variety outside of the color
     
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  7. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    You've completely missed the point. Data shouldn't have been so easy to disable like that, yet for the purposes of the story of that particular episode, he was. It also makes a difference they weren't trying to kill Data, they knew how to damage him in a way that would simply keep him disabled. Saga may have been able to survive a stab to the eye, android or not, but for the purpose of the story, she was killed. And, I don't know if you've seen the episode yet or not, so I'll just say she was killed for a purpose
    and it wasn't Narek that killed her.

    Knock out? He and Narak managed to knock down one or two, but none of them were knocked out. They quickly recovered and restrained the two Romulans. And as SouthtownKid points out, we really don't know if the golden skin androids in this series are constructed exactly like Data. Really, there are several things about these androids that doesn't make sense. Like how do Soji and Dahj still have android-like abilities when we know for sure they're made of flesh and blood? Flesh and blood can only do so much.

    Edit: I also feel it should also be pointed out, realistically, Maddox and Soong would need time to develop and perfect the technologies to make flesh and blood androids. As Dr. Jurati pointed out in the first episode, they should have been thousands of years away from that level of technology. It doesn't really make sense they'd be able to make the jump straight to making flesh and blood androids. Some of them should still be technological, as they progressed in the process of developing various technologies, eventually moving from technological to organic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  8. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    This is the way I see it.
    Him's dead. Spirit / soul already went wherever... and what we have in this fabricated shell is an advanced simulation.
    In a body that's set up to expire when Picard would die if he didn't have his space illness. So... is this something they've figured out? Does everyone in this time period have a known expiration date?

    So lame.
     
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  9. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t miss the point at all

    Regardless of how simple they made it fot that particular episode, disabling Data wasn’t impossible shouldn't have been so easy to disable like that but if anyone was capable of doing that Dr. Crusher would certainly be one of them

    and she did hit his off switch first

    And while I can agree the makers of this series made it look vague with the skin colors used on some of these creations, seems to be they went out of their way to Heavily imply they were all of the flesh and blood type

    From the easily killing of one, to the squishy sound we heard when the other eye was removed, to the look of that eye......The purposes of all of that points to the idea they are like Dagh

    I had not at the time of the first post but I saw it last night

    Did you missed the post where I posted the pictures of of the eye ball?

    i think the point is they shouldn’t have been knocked down so easily

    as to The Enhanced abilities we see from the twins, Not sure I would call them “android like abilities” exclusively.Im starting to think that Anton chose to interstate the Dreams and ambitions of his entire family with his work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  10. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    It’s not that they know when you’ll die for sure but they can certainly make a pretty good estimate, and that’s what they said they did with the new body they face Picard

    And while it’s never been very consistent in the series, I believe they’re trying to imply that consciousness is the soul.....That it resides in the accumulated energies of the mind and that it is transferable
     
  11. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Unless I misunderstood the dialogue, they drove the point home that Picard is dead, and that he resides as an advanced simulation. So he doesn't really live on. Maybe he thinks he does... or it's for the benefit of others... I dunno.

    And that bit with Data... so incredibly stupid.
     
  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Point was that it was in an advanced simulation when he was talking to data not when he reawakened in his new body
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  13. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Programming that transfors over is still programming.
     
  14. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    The point is that It’s consciousness that being transferred not programming

    “Picard” was not a program even if his body is programmed to die at some point
     
  15. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    You're deflecting it then. Crusher (and Geordi) knowing how to disable Data is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making here. The point was it only took cutting a couple of micro wires to disable Data. That's way too simple and easy an explanation for something as complex and durable as Data. But it's a quick and simple way for the writers to explain something for the purposes of the story. Saga's death is no different, regardless of if she's technological or organic.

    I don't see they went out of their way to imply they're all flesh and blood at all. If anything, having so many of them with Data's skin and eye color heavily implies the opposite to me, that they are technological.

    I didn't see it worth commenting on, considering you even had to point out yourself that it could just be some kind of synthetic biomatter. Squishy noises and the like doesn't mean it is actual flesh and blood. Even Data pointed out various ways his creator made him appear human, even down to having something like blood that served to lubricate his biofunctions.

    Sounds familiar.

    Splitting hairs. They are androids made of flesh and blood, human flesh and blood. They shouldn't have super human abilities like that.
     
  16. Deathcatg

    Deathcatg Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit, I'd never predict going in that Jean-Luc will end up becoming a more advanced take on Juliana Tainer.
    Juliana_Tainer_violin.jpg
     
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  17. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]


    ;) 
     
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  18. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I’m not deflecting it either, I just think you’re trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill

    We can agree that it seemed very simple, but it’s not like it was something they could have achieved with out tricking him, they had to shut him off first, and they had to “cut” those lines from the inside of his head.....where he would be more Vulnerable anyway

    And if you are right about Saga, then the writers went even more simple then the tng guys did in “the game”

    because Data was not that Vulnerable from the outside
    I only think it implies they were earlier models On the flesh and blood type......Likely made just after the Mars incident

    Well the reason why I asked was because I figured that you’d at least semi’s that I seen the episode

    And I’m not sure exactly what you think synthetic biomatter is, that’s exactly what Soji and Dahj were

    their bodies are flesh and blood but it’s flesh and blood that’s created Artificially
    But when separating his parts we never really heard any such sounds

    Appearing him and is one thing but the sound imply something else

    Can you elaborate
    [quotr]
    Splitting hairs. They are androids made of flesh and blood, human flesh and blood. They shouldn't have super human abilities like that.[/QUOTE]hardly.....Did you forget about Arkins work with the arguments ?

    those abilities aren’t so far removed from what we saw from those Human arguments, who knows how advanced that type of Genetic manipulation is at this point
     
  19. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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  20. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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