Captain Picard returns to tv...

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by pinoy78, Aug 4, 2018.

  1. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Why the hell do you think they aren’t free to do something else?

    It’s been mentioned several times by others and once by myself, these people are devoted to him for trying to save the world

    THEY WANT TO HELP HIM
    not to mention that there is absolutely nothing wrong with caretaking of persons or property as a way of life

    If you follow the series, don’t know if you do, but one of Picards greatest mentors What is the caretaker and grounds keeper of a school.

    Some people are happy taking care of people and places

    You are also making the mistake of judging how people view professions in the distant future and comparing it to how you personally view them today

    I caretaker/home attendant should actually be a very valued and high-paying job in my opinion it’s just unfortunate it isn’t as teaching isn’t as well in our modern society but who knows what it will be like in years to come
     
  2. Psychoshi

    Psychoshi Grammaton Cleric

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    In the last TNG ep, All Good Things, Data in the future had a housekeeper.

    Jessel

    Not everyone can have the coolest jobs. You still have to train really hard and compete against other people, just like in our current world.

    And being captain is a lot of responsibility. Plus you end up going through all kinds of crazy shit, like getting turned into a cyber-zombie, having your crewmates die on your watch, from things like an oil blotch, everyone on your ship de-evolve into scary creatures, and having your ship blown up over and over again in a time-loop.

    Maybe dusting some furniture in a house, safe on Earth isn't so bad. Especially when you can spend most of your free time in a holodeck.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  3. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    It’s also worth noting that while the Federation was nominally a cashless society, outside of funds used for commerce with non-UFP powers like the Ferengi, I don’t recall the same being said of Romulus. It is also possible that Picard’s assistants ran their own vineyard or were in the aged care sector on their home planet and saw helping Picard as both a way to thank a man that tried to save their very civilisation and homeworld and put existing skills to use in a productive way.

    Or maybe they’re ex-Tal’Shiar agents keeping an eye on him as bodyguards for the same. Who knows? Maybe we’ll find out when there’s been more than a single episode.
     
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  4. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    It's ironic you bring up some of these points... Have you seen the IDW Picard Countdown comic book?
    The comic (so far) has explained Laris and Zhaban actually were undercover Tal'Shair agents, and their cover was running a Romulan equivalent to a vineyard on one of their colonies. Only, they fell in love, which apparently is against the Tal'Shair rules. So they were going to be excommunicated no matter what they did, and decided to defect to Picard, recognizing he was only trying to help save their people, along with the native people of that planet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
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  5. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    Are they caretakers or housekeepers? Because these are two entirely different professions.

    Either way I agree with you that they should be more valued then they are. But, having worked a similar job to housekeeping for almost the last 12 years, I can tell you, the people we work for don't value us one bit.

    So, yes, I admit I am taking my own personal experience and wondering why they are doing it if it wasn't for money. I get paid slightly more than minimum wage. But, I don't think any of the rest of you would be doing your jobs if it wasn't about getting something in return.

    Currency is for the exchange of goods and services right? Well, I get the services part. But, what are the goods? Is it all just for services?

    I'm sorry this is just the way my brain works. It makes me question things.

    And, if they are doing it because they are devoted to him, fine. But again, it wasn't told to me as caregivers. It was told to me as housekeepers. Again, is a job making roughly minimum wage. With long hours, and little benefits.

    So, like I said, the exchange for booze seems to be the best reason so far.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  6. emoo

    emoo Well-Known Member

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    Not really it was stated her species is long lived, not immortal or does not age. Like spock and vulcans who are also long lived any change in appearance would seem natural as her character is centuries old
     
  7. Insurgent

    Insurgent Big Red Fire Snorting Dragon

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    I viewed those two Romulans as Picard's friends. They want to stay at his little vineyard and help keep the place tidy because it's also their own house. And they help Picard because he's their friend and he's old. Not once in the episode did I get the sense they were there just for a job.
     
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  8. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Entirely different professions?You’re exaggerating because they really aren’t.


    Synonyms for caretaker

    you can see “keeper” Among the words synonymous with caretaker

    It’s a shame I did some of the work when I was younger so I know how you feel

    Can you imagine if your wife husband partner grandmother, take your pick, Had need of some form of housekeeping or care taker?

    Would you be willing to do that work for no pay?Particularly if you didn’t need the money?

    This isn’t the best example but it’s the only one I could think of right now,

    The mayor of NYC is paid $258,750 a year. Reportedly, and I see reportedly because I don’t feel the need to research the facts of the issue,former mayor Michael Bloomberg refuses that money and only accepted to be paid $1 a year for the 12(ish) years he was mayor

    And I know the dude is Rich he didn’t need the money, But the people living on Federation worlds don’t need the money either


    Federation society doesn’t have what one would consider currency

    And the needs for living on Federation worlds Are a general given, Food clothing housing, all the things you need to live or provide it with the only expectancy that you contribute back to society in some way or fashion and that you enjoy doing what you do

    What a person enjoys doing is being a caretaker/home Housekeeper they aren’t going to receive any less and they aren’t going to be looked down upon in general

    I'm sorry this is just the way my brain works. It makes me question things.

    Again you got to consider you’re talking about a society close to about 300 years in the future

    Who knows how such people will be treated and paid then
     
  9. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic information I haven’t seen that book thank you for posting this
     
  10. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so I was mistaking on that regard. I took what you were referring to as the occupation of being what is basically a personal nurse. As that is the word used in places I've worked where things like that have been done. They were referred to as caretakers. But, in actuality, they were nurses. They were registered nurses, who were paid way more then the people who got paid to clean up after these people, who were known as housekeepers, or janitors, or whatever. Take your pick. So, that is how I took it as what people were referring to as it has always been the terms used in and around my profession.

    As for your second point. It really depends on which version are you referring to. Because I'm not qualified to do a lot of the things that would be required to do these things. But, I am qualified to clean his living place. So, if money was no object, I'd probably idk, in the terms of Star Trek, have holigraphic doctors and nurses do the nursing part, as they would be available 24/7, where people and mobile holo-emitter are now a thing in Star Trek, thanks to voyager.

    Again, I think it is important to note, that I have not seen this episode. I was told all about this out of context possible-spoiler, as a way of apparently getting me interested in this show. Within this thread. So, yes, I took my own life experience with that term, and went "WTF!?"

    I'd probably have no problem with this in proper context of the series, I'd probably just look at it with no big deal. Hell, apparently nobody is sure they are housekeepers. Possibly just neighbors or friends who stop by. But, I do this kind of work for a living. For people who are considerably wealthy like Picard is in real life. So, yes, I took my real life experience with this, and took it sort of personally. Personally that someone like this is going "oh look at me, I am so nice to these people who work for me." While, in real life he's probably a dick to the people who do this for him in his real household. Even if he is not aware he is doing it.

    Especially in a society where everything we need is provided. And, yet people are telling me that people volunteered their time to do this out of "thanks". They have nothing better to do with their time to contribute back to society? Because I would so rather do something I would find meaningful in my life, rather than cleaning up after a bunch of rich people who take shits in urinals.

    So, yea, I used my life experience and perspective for this. Because it is the only perspective I have to go on. Especially, since I haven't seen the episode yet.
     
  11. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    I think this is warranted:

    Picard.jpg
     
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  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Well I’m not going to drag this out, hopefully I hope you have a better understanding of the situation

    One more thing of note , Picard might be about 94 or so years of age But he does not seem fully dependent on people,,,,,It’s not uncommon for humans to live to almost 130 years old in Star Trek
     
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  13. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Well he’s still got all his marbles, but having Laris and Zhaban around probably makes it easier for certain tasks - like bathing Number One - to get done. And Hell, maybe the three of them like keeping the other company.
     
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  14. Deathcatg

    Deathcatg Well-Known Member

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    The economics of the Federation, especially in the TNG era, has always been a little vague. There's no poverty or want, or pursuit of wealth, and the self improvement is the main motivation in life (which as a creative person, seems like a dream come true) but there's still limitations. Deep Space Nine brought up Teleporting rations as a thing. Holodecks weren't something any Tom Next Door could just buy and run all the time due to the power it takes to operate one (though maybe that changed in the ST Picard time, who knows), and while it seems space travel can be arranged by transport with a passing Federation ship without charging a fare, it doesn't seem like every citizen owns and is able to pilot their own personal shuttlecraft. Even Quark made a huge deal about being able to finally have his own private shuttlecraft (though that's Ferengi economics, but if Federation ones were plentiful, Quark probably would have easily gotten one of those a long time ago). Without a long term Earth set Star Trek series, a lot of this is probably questions that will never be officially answered.
     
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  15. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I can see why you think that but I think the issue with him physically was more the fact that he’s been depressed and kind of letting himself go

    Pretty certain that once he gets back in the swing of things he’ll be more physically fit then he was in the first episode
     
  16. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    Damn, You spent hella effort for something you didn't even watch lol.
     
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  17. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    Well, I wouldn't even know about it, if someone didn't directly tell me about it. I had actually left the thread, mostly not wanting to go back until I have watched it. Only sticking around seeing reviews and what not. And, then someone quoted me to tell me about it.

    So, everyone, could you kindly stop blaming me.
     
  18. Wolfguard

    Wolfguard Your own personal Jesus.

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    Yup. There are also other aspects which people forget about, such as the dystopian world Tasha Yar grew up on. The "good life" has limitations even in the 24th century Federation, and the idea of eliminating money...I mean, really, you have to have some kind of currency exchange for services. I doubt Sisko's dad was serving crawfish in exchange for poetry recitals. And it's the epitome of hypocrisy for Roddenberry to have a platform to knock such things as money, but enjoy the benefits of it to the fullest in his daily life.

    Less than 100yrs earlier, this convo said it all - situations come up where Feds need a currency to purchase goods and services:

    "Aaaah, Mutara restricted. Take permits many. Money, mooore."

    "....money I got"

    "Place you name, money I name, otherwise bargin, noooo."

    - Star Trek III
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
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  19. Scrapper6

    Scrapper6 Lord of Constructicons

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    So, from what I've gathered, someone told you about this minor aspect of the show's characters before you even watched the episode, and because you have a similar job dealing with privileged POSs for a living and you hate that type of employment, but you do it because of necessity and life needs and you automatically assume that the show is belittling you in some fashion by making a pair of characters in a utopian society act like complete tools to a man like Picard? Who has never once looked down upon anyone, has even fought and put his life and job on the line for species less privileged than those in the Federation from his viewpoint and suddenly he's a curmudgeonly old rich snob who treats people like dirt off-camera?

    Forgive me, but it seems you're projecting a little too hard on this fictional situation.

    Everyone who works hard for a living feels put upon at some point in their lives, but I wouldn't get antagonistic towards a goddamn television show I'd never seen before and paint it as some monstrous piece of trash because of one minor element that barely has anything to do with the actual plot of the show.
     
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  20. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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