I'd be very surprised if she didn't return as Sela. Denise Crosby is a huge Trek fan and would gladly come back if asked to. What I liked about Bok was actually what caused his downfall too - that he acted out of revenge and hatred, and placed those over his self-interest - which is quite un-Ferengi-like. Similar to that assassin guy from Magnificent Ferengi (man that is a great episode), he is not motivated by profit. And yeah, that haunting plot was great. Btw, I heard on TrekNews they are in talks with Kate Mulgrew to have her in a live-action show too (she is already playing 2 roles on Prodigy). So I would not rule out a return of DS9 either. Obviously without Sisko, as Avery Brooks is really adamant on not returning to TV acting. It'd be a bit too fanservice-y. Sela never had the feelings for Data her mother did (she was ready to kill him at one time) and Lore would have no memories of Tasha at all... plus he really, really looks down on puny dumb organic beings. Same here. I had the biggest crush on her back in 1987, seeing the show on Sky One while I barely understood english. So her sudden unexpected death really shook me and gave me even more joy when seeing her return in future episodes. Maybe she was planned to be her? For a Romulan, she is pretty helpful and ready to work with the Federation. Maybe they could just not get Denise Crosby, or Paramount said no to the plans? I always felt that should have been her. But I have never seen any background info about it. Which is one of the things I hated about the movie, the other being Kirk's death. Both are really lackluster. Do we really get this memorable captain and this memorable ship beaten by such forgettable antagonists? I like them fine enough for those multipart episodes with the Klingon civil war, sure. And yeah, their Power Girl style boob-window armor sure was distracting. But they are more schemers than direct villains, and them going out on a bird-of-prey felt rather weak too. Plus I always felt they were more Worf's villains than Picard's, he should have been the one to defeat them, maybe in combat. The House of Duras was basically the blood enemy of his.
Such a huge fan that she quit right out of the gate because they didn't give her character more to do. Like others from that series have pointed out - Worf and Troi didn't have a lot either but Dorn and Sirtis didn't quit so quickly and worked hard and lobbied tirelessly to get more chances to explore their characters. As a result they became a big part of Trek lore. On the otherhand Crosby's character is only well known for dying
I put all the blame on the movie and not the characters. Generations is a complete mess. You could argue that the Duras sisters are not “big” enough villains for a Kirk/Picard combo but that doesn’t mean they’re bad villains or weak characters. If you look at the TNG movie villains, it’s not like there is a stellar track record there either. Borg Queen is fine, but then you have a lackluster Picard clone (cliche and trope-ish), lackluster botched cosmetic surgery villains with rogue Starfleet officer (cliche!) and super forgettable Allurian. At least the Duras sisters are fun to watch! (One of the best Trek movies had lots of humor too…) Yeah, they are a Worf villain. But that’s not to say one of the TNG movies couldn’t have been Worf centered. That’s such a weird take. She left for good reasons. The writing was terrible and she wasn’t getting any material that made her stand out. Actors need good material in their current roles to get future roles. It’s how you prove yourself worthy of the next role and bigger roles. To her credit (and the credit of the TNG team), she came back. Pride or pettiness could have easily gotten in the way of that. But instead we saw the range and depth of Crosby’s skills when she took a new role that was the diametric opposite of her original character. Tasha had a warmth around her friends but a toughness at work, Sela was cold blooded, calculating and ruthless. Saying she should have stuck around is just hindsight talking. There was no way anyone could have predicted the huge turnaround in quality the show had season 3 onwards.
I think you missed the point being made and that is that other cast members weren't getting any material that made them stand out either but they stuck around and lobbied for better stories about their characters. That's part of the process. Acting isn't just about reading the lines given to you in a script. You're expected to contribute to the conversation behind the scenes as well. Dorn and Sirtis reportedly took the time and effort to do that and it paid off for them, Crosby didn't. TL;DR? Other actors fought for their piece of the pie while she just quit.
Who’s to say Crosby didn’t do that either? Who’s to say Crosby didn’t have faith that the show would improve and thought it was best to leave. Who’s to say the other actors were unhappy but chose to stay, not because they thought things would improve, but for other reasons. I mean, if you’re unhappy at your job and you’re told “we promise it’ll improve, just wait— wait two years.” Would you do it? You can’t predict the future but you’re unhappy now and you’ve see constant examples of poor leadership and no signs things will change. Why wouldn’t you leave? TNG could easily have been canceled after season 3 if things hadn’t improved. Or it could have 7 complete seasons but with super mediocre writing the whole way through. No one can predict these things. This isn’t a Shelly Long leaving Cheers type of situation. Crosby didn’t think she was the star of the show and wanted to move on to bigger and better things. TNG was reaaaally bad that first season. It’s very understandable why anyone would have left at that point.
The people on the show. The people on the show said that. I mentioned that at the start of this conversation. Again - everyone else in the cast was in the same boat but they made it work by not giving up.
Dorn was possibly the only one who was somewhat happy: Worf was supposed to be a part time character, appearing in less than half of the episodes, but he managed to impress them in the pilot and got a full time job for the season. But outside of Dorn, none of the actors were really happy with their parts. Even the ones who got a lot to do like Frakes and Spiner, were unhappy. So why didn't they quit? Expectations really were that the series would be cancelled: Stewart may now claim he knew from the start it was going to be a hit, but we also know that during season 1 he didn't bother finding a place to live, just staying in a hotel, and didn't even unpack his suitcase. None of them expected the series to really last. More importantly, quitting was a risk. Not only does it look bad on your resume, they were all under contract for three years. Quitting was a breach of contract. Resign and you pay, get fired (or the show cancelled) and you get paid. Sirtis has said that during season 1 she expected to get fired any episode so why bother quitting? And in case of Sirtis and Stewart their stay in the USA migh have been dependent on having this job. But Crosby really hated what they did with her character, a character she hadn't even auditioned for -- she auditioned for the role of "Troi". And I agree with her. Yar was written badly, perhaps worse than all others save Troi. But if she had stayed, things would be very differently. Her departure meant they could develop Worf. If she had stayed, what would they have done? Worf as Chief Engineer or conn? Tasha at conn? Her departure opened things up and if any character benefitted, it was Worf.
That's interesting stuff. I knew the story about Stewart not getting unpacked but I hadn't heard the other items about contracts and such. It's always interesting to hear all the behind the scenes mechanizations that went on during the years of this show as we just all sat there as an ignorant audience enjoying the result. As you said, none of the characters were written very well.. But others stuck it out and made Lemonade out of lemons. And lets not forget Nichelle Nichols who was another actress dissatisfied with her role but was famously convinced by Martin Luther king to stay on the show and although her character never reached epic heights of story inclusion she's very much become an important part of star trek and not just a background character may she rest in peace
I think it was in the 90's that I bought this book, the TNG companion(?), that had all kinds of details about the making of the seasons and different episodes. Especially season 1 was interesting. Things about the creation of the show, where the actors came from, three years pay or play contracts for all the cast and crew, their dissatisfaction, etc... Also very interesting was the inclusion of the notes about the original story ideas and how several writers hated Roddenberry's rewrites so much that they refused to have their names in the titles. And later even more things came to the light like the conflicts between the late season 1 showrunner and Gates McFadden, which resulted in her getting fired. Or Crosby's story about how Rick Berman treated her, ripping of her comm badge on her last day. And with the creative team there were also difficulties and conflict. It wasn't just dissatisfaction with the scripts and the characters, there was also a lot of improper behaviour by the people in charge among their own and directed at the actors. An interesting fact is that though Stewart apparently had little faith himself, he encouraged other to stick it out: he knew how difficult it was to keep yourself fed as an actor. But a lot of unintentional credit should go to Rick Berman. When Roddenberry had to step back he was promoted to head of Star Trek and thus was less involved in day to day stuff. Michael Piller then became headwriter in season 3 and his scripts and his approach did wonders. Paramount was also important, since they only greenlighted a second season (and afterwards a 3rd) if things changed. Plus the writers/producers noticed somethings just didn't work. For example with Frakes we know he hated how he had to play Riker as very aloof while he wanted him to be jovial. And after a while the writers and producers noticed this aloof douche approach didn't work for the character.
I just saw this. Don’t they know they are supposed to call out the fans, call them dirty names, and tell them not to watch? They are supposed to hate the fans, not appreciate them. Good golly... this piece of good will just might inspire me to watch this season. Maybe even go back and watch S2. Just goes to show how a little class and higher road can go a long way.
So seems Denise Crosby IS going to appear after all! Unsure in what role, yet. Star Trek: Picard (season 3) - Wikipedia She became a huge fan afterwards - when she realized what a giant opportunity she missed by quitting. I mean, have you seen the documentaries she does about Trek conventions? She is very active in those circles. To a lesser extent, Will Wheaton did the same, quitting after 4 (was it 4?) seasons to expand his career. And well, we know where that lead, apart from a weird Frankenstein movie, he is mostly known for being the guy who used to be in Trek on Big Bang Theory, and doing Trek podcasts and shows. Btw, fun fact how originally, the roles of Troi and Tasha were to be given to Denise and Marina in reverse... only because someone said they don't want the ship psychiatrist to be blonde were their roles switched. I would like to see an episode from an alternate universe where Marina Sirtis is Tasha Yar and Denise Crosby is Deanna Troi. Video is gone, so can you explain? Who are "they?" The actors? Kurtzmann or Matalas? I am gonna watch no matter what. It feels like what this show should have been from the start, and apparently, Paramount/CBS was against any more returning TNG characters in seasons 1-2 because they did not want to alienate new watchers. I guess they realized there were not gonna be new watchers anymore, and instead decided to get rid of Rios and Elrond... erm, Elnor and Agnes. Frankly, having rewatched all of TNG (again) since the COVID struck , I don't think Seasons 1-2 were that bad. Especially 2 has a lot of episodes I would rewatch even today again. And I don't just mean Measure of a Man. A Matter of Honor was probably the first proper look into Klingon life, as well. Honestly, I would sooner rewatch both seasons than to having to rewatch Enterprise's first seasons again. But at least unlike Will Wheaton, Denise did have a career in some action and crime drama movies afterwards. Others had similar thoughts too. Let's not forget, that for the second season we had Gates McFadden leave due to the sexist way some producers or directors have treated her when she tried to suggest ways for her character to be developed. In the commentaries of the BR release, it is mentioned how it was a repeated push from Patrick Stewart and Whoopi Goldberg that led to her being re-hired for season 3. I have to disagree with that. I saw TNG as a kid as it aired, on Sky One, and I thought it was the bee's knees. And the show had a huge impact too when it aired, gathering easily 10 million viewers (checking the ratings on wikipedia) for each episode. I would not be a Trekkie today if it wasn't for that first season (despite watching and hating that recap/clipshow episode Shades of Grey) - I saw TOS beforehand and I could just not get into it. If you never heard that story, how about the one about Picard's wig? Because, yeah... originally, like Shatner, they gave Patrick one as well, and we can thank Rick Berman that he did not have to wear this monstrosity (apparently, Gene Roddenberry could never imagine a future where a cure was not invented for male pattern baldness... ) Photo: When Patrick Stewart wore a wig for his Star Trek audition
I knew the wig story but never saw a picture of it until now. Maybe it's just because I'm so used to seeing him bald but that is NOT a good look for him.
Star Trek: Picard Season 3 Offers "Full Riker" & More: Jonathan Frakes "I got to say, it was a blast. It was a blast to work with Patrick [Stewart] again as an actor. It was kind of emotional. And I had great stuff with Marina [Sirtis] again, who I adore. It was all I could have hoped for, and I think the fans are going to go cuckoo. I think season three is going to crush. I had plenty of good Riker stuff during seven years and certainly on First Contact, but the Riker stuff [Terry Matalas] wrote for the character is denser and more interesting. It has a greater sense of irony. There's a lot of levity. I mean, he just gets the characters in such a positive way." " I have a very strong conflict," Frakes said. "Riker has a big conflict with Picard as part of the arc of this season. A kind of 'F you, you're wrong!' kind of conflict." Sounds like things get really strained between Ryker and Picard.
So the stuff the fans have been saying to the writers about season 2 somehow made it into the season 3 script.
