Can we ditch the AllSpark for a while?

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by ZombehDino, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. Revoticus

    Revoticus Big Combaticon fan

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    Ah, I thought so too, the Matrix of leadership that have been used throughout the franchise since the movie was intended to be Hot Rod's symbol of leadership. But since it was first seen stored in Optimus chest cavity, most people thought that it always belonged to Optimus.

    Ofcourse Optimus having the matrix could be a nod to the creation Matrix but how it is used and presented right now is closer to the one seen in the movie not the comics.
     
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  2. GeoSociety

    GeoSociety Lowering the Bar

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    In that case, everything from Prime and the Binder of Revelation we'll never be shown?
     
  3. 96megatron

    96megatron Well-Known Member

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    Not in the lore, "the search for the Allspark" plot point sure.
     
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  4. Atharun18999

    Atharun18999 Xantium Pilot

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    Some of those were in the first IDW continuity, the second IDW continuity and Cyberverse as well
     
  5. Pillowman7

    Pillowman7 This gonna be bananas

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    I agree its been over used lately. It works really well in the Bayverse (until AoE and TLK), I liked it in Animated it was a good bridge for fans and newcomers alike so there was some familiarity between the two series, wasn't really a focal point in Prime until the very very end of the series, and worked nicely in Cyberverse. But in my opinion the breaking point was in the Netflix show. The Netflix show felt like a more gritty retelling of the Cyberverse plot which we just saw not too long ago. I hope the next new Transformers story Hasbro decides to tell doesn't focus on the Allspark I'm fine with it being mentioned or in the background just not the focus of the series. I definitely think it's time for a new story. Hopefully the 2022 movie doesn't find a way to introduce it.
     
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  6. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    I have the same issue with the Matrix of Leadership, I see that thing all over.

    With the AllSpark, I think it serves enough purpose as a source of Transformer life, creating Autobots and Decepticons. That doesn't mean it should be used too much, though.
     
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  7. Magnum Dongus

    Magnum Dongus Wishing for a reboot

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    I like the Allspark as the Transformer afterlife, where Transformers’ sparks come from at the beginning of their life and return at the end. Maybe it is a physical giant spark at the core of Cybertron (Primus’s spark maybe), maybe it is sort of its own separate realm. But making it YET ANOTHER super-duper-special handheld magical doohickey that everyone is fighting over really waters down the other things that already have the same role.

    You could call me biased because the “We must get the Allspark” plot is one of the many Bayformers inventions that Hasbro keeps trying to push as definitive of the brand since its beginning. But even if that wasn’t one of the reasons I hated it, there are still many others. Mainly because it is easily the stupidest reason for leaving Cybertron that they could come up with, and yet they keep using it. I can not take the story seriously when it’s driven by something as stupid as Optimus going “Oh no, we have to get rid of the Allspark!” and then four seconds later saying “Oh no! What have I done!? We need to get it back!”
     
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  8. Maximus Danz

    Maximus Danz Wreck N' Rule

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    God I hate that trend we've been having. Optimus is not like Hot Rod. Hot Rod + Matrix = Rodimus Prime because it is a physical sign of his metaphorical character growth. Optimus Prime became that way through years of experience pre and during the war. If you pull out his matrix, he will still be Optimus, just without the Wisdom of the ages.
     
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  9. Dire 51

    Dire 51 Line Stepper.

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    AMEN!
     
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  10. Warpshard

    Warpshard Well-Known Member

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    And if you want to go with the more literal interpretations of that transition from Pax to Prime, he's literally rebuilt as Prime in a few continuities.
     
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  11. MrSoundmeister

    MrSoundmeister Bang,Bang Boom!

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    Yeah, They should retire the allspark. Atleast move on with the next big movie plot point, Finding Sentinel Prime on the moon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  12. bufferunderrun

    bufferunderrun Well-Known Member

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    Imho the problem isn’t the all spark but the continuous reboot they do to promote a new toyline, the same thing they did with the original movie when they got hastily killed megs, optimus and other chars just to make space for a new batch of toys.
    The very approach that is the toyline that dictate the continuity is what make the show all over the place.
    Imho they should take the wfc trilogy as the base for a new animated serie ( preferably with cartoon animation and not cgi) that restart from the g1 episode 1 retelling us the classic story.
     
  13. Coffee

    Coffee (╭☞ꗞᨓꗞ)╭☞

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    Including the Allspark in modern media is one of the most redundant and stupid decisions that franchise has ever made. The only way it works is if you do away with the Matrix and/or Vector Sigma entirely. The Allspark concept was only invented because Bay wanted to avoid calling it the Matrix so that people wouldn't get confused with the Matrix franchise, which is stupid reasoning. Therefore the Allspark is the Creation Matrix is Vector Sigma.

    All are supercomputer concepts that bring the Transformers life. The Allspark fits the exact same role, and yet all three appear to exist in the same universe.

    It's redundancy, and it adds nothing. Any story editor knows to remove redundancy in a narrative when it crops up, but the Allspark's establishment in the ridiculous Aligned continuity conceptual timeline has fooled current tf writers that the Allspark is some intrinsic part of the Transformers Lore, when it's creation was a total fluke based on a silly idea that came up during the conceptual development of the first live action movie.

    Also its presence as the core macguffin to every conflict is so tired at this point.
     
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  14. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    The one time the AllSpark worked was in Animated, and that was because it was the -one- mystical element in an otherwise (very, very soft) science fiction world, which made it feel more important. It was mysterious, it had a will of it's own, it held untold wisdom and secrets. Chasing after it wasn't the characters' sole purpose every week, and, importantly, they didn't mean to find it, they stumbled onto it.

    Because the whole "Let's send this into space!" followed immediately by "Ahhh, sh*t, we better go get that, huh?" is stupid. There is a basic logical hole in that sequence of events. It is one of many, many stupid elements that Hasbro hopes to make definitive by including and re-including it over, and over, and over again, along with terrible greatest hits like "Optimus and Megatron were once great friends who wanted the same thing and now fight over whether or not they should fight to get it." "Optimus was a librarian right up until the shooting started." and "Energon is a crystalline substance that grows out of metal somehow because it's Magic(?)."

    And if they're not fighting over that, they're fighting over the Forge of Solus Prime (which is not a forge for some reason) or the Enigma of Combination (which is a solid, magical item and not, like, a math equation, for some reason) or the Star/Dark Sabers (which -Fun fact- suck). It's terrible. It's not even soft sci-fi at this point, it's soft-fantasy where the elves are made of metal for some reason.

    It's all Simon Furman's fault. He just had to introduce God and the Devil. Before that they were fighting over hydro-electric dams and teleportation devices. What I wouldn't give to see the Decepticons go after an offshore oil platform.

    I'm gonna go one step further and say that the Matrix is just a dumb thing to have around if it doesn't actually do anything in the story itself.

    Look, I get it; it's a neat looking thing. People know what it is. But what it is is actually ill defined and lazy.

    The last time the Matrix was really interesting was when it was a program in Optimus Prime's head, because when Shockwave got a hold of it, he actually did something. He made six guys that could become one big guy. He was going to take the whole species in weird new directions.

    All these new McGuffins, what do they actually get used for? Oh, this guy hits harder now. Maybe he gets a new body/toy out of it. It's lazy.
     
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  15. TonyStink

    TonyStink AKA Deinotron the Terrible

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    Also, the AllSpark has kept the same design within Cyberverse and WFC. It looks stupid. I feel it should look more like an energy ball.
     
  16. Atharun18999

    Atharun18999 Xantium Pilot

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    To add to my list alongside the mystical artifacts, ditch the enigma of combination as well. Also redesign Windblade to not have the crazy markings. I get that she has to be special but make her a normie like the rest, it will make her a better character IMO.
     
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  17. Rojixus

    Rojixus I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY!

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    Hot Take: There's nothing wrong with Transformers being a fantasy series, robots aren't exclusive to science fiction.
     
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  18. TonyStink

    TonyStink AKA Deinotron the Terrible

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    For me, take out the gods and keep some magic.
     
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  19. Coffee

    Coffee (╭☞ꗞᨓꗞ)╭☞

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    I disagree on Windblade becoming a better character by making her design less distinct, but I agree that she needs a redesign that makes her fit in aesthetically with the rest of the cast. That has more to do with design than character though. The markings are one of the few things about her that make her an interesting character, at least at surface level, and makes her slightly more than a generic female action protagonist.

    The Enigma of Combination is definitely up there as one of my least favourite pieces of contemporary lore to the Transformers mythos. We had decades of the consensus that combination is a technology, and that the melding of minds aspect is a flaw in the technology that results in the combined forms slower in the head than their individual components. The Enigma is an awful macguffin and spits in the face of the prior lore in the continuity it was introduced in.

    IDW had four combiners prior to the macguffin's introduction, all created through technological developments and refined over time. Superion being magically merged in RID was a rough patch in logic, but it had been long established for years that the Enigma of Combination didn't need to exist for combiners to. It required a retcon to say, "Oh, it was just a fluke that Monstructor, Devastator, Superion, and Menasor (Who was made by fucking Swindle) were all created without the magical artifact-- those are all ARTIFICIAL combiners." Which is ridiculous. Not to mention, it doesn't take magic to build something that can be replicated in a smaller scale model: IE a toy. No one ever questioned the logic in these transforming robots with software brains being able to transform into limbs and fit into the slots of a torso-- and then in turn allow for a fully functioning humanoid body. It is 100% more grounded to just say these robots were built and wired to be this way than a magical talisman that bends reality is the only way to accomplish it even though it's been established years before in its own continuity that that isn't the case.

    So why the need to introduce this macguffin as the source of combiners? Because the year the Combiner Wars toyline came out there was a mandate for more combiners to appear in the comics. And because it was decided that combiners were difficult to make in the IDW continuity (which was true), the only way to accomplish it was to invent a macguffin that could turn bots into combiners at will. Thus, it was easier to fit toys into the allotted pagetime. The Enigma of Combination was a marketing tool that was misunderstood as another intrinsic part of the franchise by writers that didn't know better.
     
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  20. Atharun18999

    Atharun18999 Xantium Pilot

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    I think a lot of characters need a redesign in general to fit in. Skylinx is one of them. He looks like a character from a completely different series. I'd rather he be a triple changer with a space and cat mode more than a shuttle meets awkward bird with a cat strapped on with the nose of the shuttle as his face and mouth like he is now. I think Windblade's design is a bit too much and screams of "look at me I'm special". She can be altered a bit to fit in. I also think Titan Speaking is pretty dumb tbh.

    Another thing I'd change is to not set the series on a modern day earth in anyway. Make it vaguely futuristic in order to keep that "timeless" nature for the non movie portion of the franchise. It makes the alt modes easier because you can have Cyberverse style alt modes that call back to G1 but not have to exactly replicate it, I.E. make Optimus a literal 1980's Cab over semi.
     
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