Can Transformers make a Billion again?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Rais Hussain, May 9, 2019.

  1. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Lean Mean Angry Machine

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    Have you even LOOKED at this franchise recently? I mean, come on, just name ONE THING from this franchise currently on the market that isnt playing up G1 style nostalgia and isnt Studio Series, WHICH ITSELF has G1 style in some figures like the Prime.
     
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  2. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

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    I still don't know how the third and fourth one made so much money. I sometimes feel TLK was Bay's experiment to see how much of a bad film he could make, and if people would still come to see it. But even TLK just felt like everyone was just so angry so much of the time. I still feel if thy could have, they would have had Cogman just killing anyone he could, given his bloodlust.
     
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  3. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Lean Mean Angry Machine

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    A better film than the actual 4th and 5th films combined.
     
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  4. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    I think the third did well because TFs was still a pretty fresh idea and the fx still stood out. Then I think the fourth did well because the third was good. But I think the new TF cast and designs it had turned people off from the fifth.
     
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  5. ShockwaveCannon

    ShockwaveCannon Banned

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    And because literally everyone I know hated the fifth, at least with the fourth there were “mixed” reviews, but literally everyone hated the fifth which turned people off from watching it
     
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  6. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Yeah, I loved the first four. TLK was the first one I disliked.
     
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  7. ShockwaveCannon

    ShockwaveCannon Banned

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    Possibly. I don’t think it can reach the high domestic levels it had back in 2009 again, but because the foreign box office is so huge it is very much possible it can break a billion. People are just really burnt out of TF movies atm. I mean, there has been 6 MOVIES so far so I don’t blame them if they take a break. It may be what’s best.
     
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  8. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    People watched like the better part of a dozen Harry potter movies (though there was fatigue in that franchise as well), we're on to like what, eight or nine fast and the furious movies? The James Bond franchise has gone on for like 50 years, there's dozens of Godzilla films, etc.

    The point im getting at is that franchise fatigue is definitely a thing, but it's not necessarily tied to how many movies a franchise has, more importantly it's about how often those movies come out, and how they're able to give the audience something new, or at least something theyre interested in seeing. Look at Star Wars, for example, how much anticipation there was for the start of the prequel and 'new' trilogies, and how fatigue set in over time.

    Transformers is a strong concept, it's managed to reinvent itself several times, even the bumblebee film is another example of this, but it has to offer it's audiences something special if it wants to stay on the top of the heap, and frankly, I don't think any franchise stays there forever. Maybe our expectations shouldn't be making a billion dollars as much as remaining profitable and sustainable.
     
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  9. ShockwaveCannon

    ShockwaveCannon Banned

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    We’ve seen Autobots and Decepticons fight 6 times on the big screen already. The difference is that in Fast And Furious they have the opportunity to COMPLETELY REINVENT themselves, and change the core concept: at first it was about simply cars and now its completely different. There’s less room for the Transformers movies to reinvent themselves compared to other franchises. I agree that it has to be different to other movies if it wants to stay at the top. And simply put, Paramounts aim with main line transformers movies (not bumblebee) is to make a billion dollars. Look at TLK’s budget, they clearly had the plan to make a billion. Maybe now that it didn’t they aren’t willing to take that risk again, but we’ll see. Only time will tell
     
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  10. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I don't think fast and the furious has any less narrative ground to tread than transformers, nor do I think a Transformers film has to be limited to Autobots and deceptions repetitively slugging it out onscreen over and over (though that might be contributing to the fatigue I mentioned earlier).

    I'm with you that studios may not want to fund as many 'billion dollar' films moving forward, they're risky and more modest successes (with smaller budgets) may be more sustainable overall. That effect likely won't be limited just to Transformers however.
     
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  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Lean Mean Angry Machine

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    There's a difference between 'bald guys in cars going fast' every film (or, factoring in Hobbs and Shaw, it's just 'bald guys kicking each other's asses' because cars aren't even as important anymore) and 'alien civil war taking place on a completely different planet'.

    Plus, the idea that Transformers can't reinvent itself is stupid and the franchise itself proves it. I mean, how the hell else do you think it managed to survive for thirty plus years? That's the real problem I see going on, that some people do not seem to comprehend that the brand ever existed before the films, that the films are somehow the only damn thing that matter. And when they do it's incessantly whining about how everything is G1 as if fans of every other version of Transformers constantly getting shafted somehow don't matter.

    How about we get a film about Autobots vs Decepticons where we actually give a damn about the robots? Where they are more fleshed out as characters instead of just props fighting around while some useless human idiot is supposed to be saving the day. This is why Bumblebee gets praised despite having the smallest amount of robots: characterization. Shatter and Dropkick are easily the best Decepticons simply because they have personality - Shatter is the more manipulative to Dropkick's blunt force, and this time they ally with the humans out of deception instead of the humans legitamately being absolute assholes themselves. They're more than just mindless savages whose sole purpose is too blow up (though they do admittedly do that to, yet EVEN THEN their deaths are pretty awesome compared to just getting stabbed by Prime over and over).

    This is the all-important reason why the Decepticons are just as important as the Autobots - yin and yang. To have good heroes, you need good villains. And the Decepticons before Bumblebee were not good villains.

    The idea of making a billion is long gone - Paramount's still in a bad place and need a hit series again. They need a Guardians of the Galaxy, because what that film didn't do in making a billion, it succeeded in becoming a mega popular franchise because that means more money through merchandising and sequels. A stable franchise is worth far more than a one shot wonder in the long term.
     
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  12. ShockwaveCannon

    ShockwaveCannon Banned

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    True, but people don’t watch fast and furious for narrative ground. They mainly watch it for the action. Similar to why Transformers is a billion dollar franchise. People want to see robots kicking ass. But, due to negative critical reception from TLK that could be the reason it grossed so badly. I think that audiences are changing, nowadays so it would be interesting to see if F&F still grosses solidly despite having quite a weak narrative.

    I never said they can’t reinvent themselves, but it’s clear to see that people are burned out of the movies in general. Even though BB awais promoted as a different narrative through trailers it still did pretty average( not saying it did badly but it didn’t do amazing either). And yes, giving them more character will definitely be a huge positive. I agree with this, because it would make audiences actually care and makes the movies less forgettable. And we’ve seen with the live action movies that Paramount didn’t exactly care about the future of the franchise and was just trying to make a movie THAT MOMENT IN TIME a hit. For example, after DOTM it was clear that was it for them. But then they got greedy, and the last two felt forced. It will be interesting to see Paramounts direction, TLK bombing is actually a major advantage because now maybe Paramount will realise they can’t let create half assed movies anymore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2019
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  13. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    Tom Cruise says hi.
     
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  14. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Lean Mean Angry Machine

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    Well the advertising for the film wasn't great and they didn't emphasize the fact Bumblebee was a different narrative specifically because they wanted people who thought it wasn't to pay money to see the film. This was, after all, the period where nobody seemed willing to lay it down in concrete terms if Bumblebee was a reboot or a prequel.

    I don't think so. Paramount is still hurting and this is two years after the fact. Paramount really hasn't had a strong hit and if they don't soon, they will go under.
     
  15. ShockwaveCannon

    ShockwaveCannon Banned

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    From my experience in the UK, I did see Bumblebee adverts a lot on TV etc. But when I ask people in different countries they never even knew this movie and TLK even existed. And yeah I agree, Paramount really needs a hit.
     
  16. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    Can it? Sure, but I think we will see a lot more controlled movies for a while.
     
  17. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave Bounty Hunter

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    I could definitely see that. Instead of aiming for big 'home runs', they might just try to aim for more modest successes, like Bumblebee. Bumblebee was definitely treated as a smaller release, but a huge tentpole like the other movies.
     
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  18. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    If people don't watch fast and furious for anything but action, then it should be even easier for transformers to thrive, as the concept can deliver a much more unique kind of action than non-transforming cars can.

    But to be honest with you, I don't believe that's true. Audiences may not say it, they may not even understand it, but there's a minimum standard of story they need to accept a film, and the more recent fast and furious films have delivered that, in addition to the action.

    Critical reception didnt tank TLK, it being an incoherent film with nothing new of substance to offer it's audience tanked it. Audiences didn't care about the subterranean critical ratings of the previous films, after all.
     
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  19. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Lean Mean Angry Machine

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    The way F&F works is that pretty much every sequel gets crazier with whatever plot they need to stop is. The plot generally is straightforward enough that it's never in question what the motivation is of the main characters (even when it gets cartoonish IE Hobbs constantly popping up to kill Dom while Dom is trying to hijack terrorists to save the hot hacker chick to give him the plot device to track down Hobbs...despite the easier solution to be just waiting for Hobbs to come to him) and the absolute absurdity of it all is played absolutely straight by everybody. All you need to know about Hobbs, for instance, is that he's rogue MI6 or whatever. End of story.

    Transformers gets too caught up in it's own backstory to justify the robots in-universe in such a slapdash, poorly thought out way, and constantly shoving it in the audience's face to understand why the heroes are doing whatever for unclear reasons that ultimately dont impact the next film - unlike Fast which keeps its continuity such as Evil Furiosa taking control of Godseye at the beginning of Fast 8 simply to prevent the good guys from using it the way they did in Fast 7.