Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Rais Hussain, May 9, 2019.
Definitely if they make it the right way.
I'm more concerned about a coherent story with good characterization and sensible plotting, and other things that make a good film, happening first. . .After that, then the box office take can be worried about. . .
The billion dollar club is pretty much owned by Disney right now with Universal getting in there once in a while and after fixing their superhero plans Warner Brothers was able to take advantage of everyone loves superheroes with getting Aquaman in the club.
But it's a lot tougher to get in the billion dollar club than it used to be. The current trend has only about 4 or 5 movies a year being able to reach that mark.
Paramount would need a lot of changes to get anything even close to being a contender because when you look at the films that do go that big it's not the international box office you have to huge at home as well. So far Paramount hasn't exactly been showing they are a studio of huge changes or that they are a studio that understands what puts butts in seats these days.
Yes it can make a billion again, but you need the gain back the trust of the audience. Make films that people will love and want to come back over and over again
Absolutely. But not now, not soon.
The studio has to prove that Transformers movies could be fun, without bay's trademarks all over it.
Bumblebee showed us some potential for that, and now the studio has to maintain the quality for their future Transformers movies.
Transformers is done, for now.
I also needed to add... probably one of the other important thing aside from getting the right people.
That is some distance between the previous ones to the new one and making sure it detaches itself completely from the old one.
There’d been several years that separated Schumacher’s Batman and Nolan’s Batman.
But those two factors are the most important: distance and the right ppl.
I don’t know why this rule is always true. I guess you have to build up that sense of nostalgia again. Then do everything right this time.
Is not interesting anymore.
And that's to say the least...it used to be one of the most interesting things out there but now...
I’m not sure about that, the last knight was one of the most viewed trailers in 24 hours. Even if they do reboot it however, I don’t think it will ever be as popular as it once was: Dark Of the Moon was prime popularity for me, everyone wanted to see that movie.
That’s probably because of AOE and TLK being so bad, and being 3 years apart from each other- it was so long that people just lost interest
By long I don’t mean the runtime btw, I mean how they both came out 3 years later
I think they'll need to take a break and reboot when special effects get better and more real feeling. Have scenes where vehicle damage occurs and out affects the robot modes. And give the TF more screen time and lines. Maybe a star studded voice cast.
Bumblebee already did this
They'll probably be stuck in the been there, done that section that has better ratings but as far as Transformers being one of the big players that mentains interest..I just doubt it and as things go right now we have to wait a good while even for a small movie.And then it will feel like okay they're again on Earth..again in an alliance with humans in some capacity..no..I liked that in the other movies but beginning again with similar stuff after I was a fan for so many years..it's hard to be that excited.
The thing is, I didn't think AoE and TLK were any worse than the first three movies. I think they were just less within the comfort zone of both general audiences and Transformers fans than the first three movies. The former included many high school and college students who either grew beyond TFs a little bit or wanted more Shia, more Megan Fox, etc., and the latter wanted something more nostalgic and similar to "classic" Transformers.
I genuinely enjoy all of the live action movies, but I don't understand how anyone can pretend that the earlier films, which I remind others were endlessly ripped apart for their designs, characterization, Witwicky and military focus, robot deaths and depictions, etc., were somehow much "better." Fans rip apart the earlier films to no end for a million reasons, but suddenly AoE and TLK are what "ruined" the films? I don't buy that for a second, especially since some of the changes made post-DotM were arguably made in response to fan criticisms of the first three films. And many fans, probably with plenty of overlap, now hate the newer films so much more than the earlier films they hated so much! Funny how that works out.
I am not saying fans can't have preferences. We all have them. I just don't understand how anyone can think the earlier films with cliché, cartoon-like characters, McGuffins, and over-the-top scenarios, humor, and destruction, are so much better than the later films with cliché, cartoon-like characters, McGuffins, and over-the-top scenarios, humor, and destruction. I think there's a lot of jumping on the bandwagon and looking at the earlier films with rose-tinted glasses.
To be fair, you are complaining about the set up to a new Transformers series being identical to litterally every other major Transformers series except Beast Wars/Machines (which was just a continuation of the G1 timeline so it's a valid exception). The premise of the franchise is alien robots that disguise themselves in plain sight as vehicles...it kind of loses the point of the whole thing if Earth isnt involved somehow at some point as a key battleground.
It's been the same for every reboot as a necessity because in the end, you cant keep telling the same story forever - otherwise you get the Japanese continuity which I dont think you would enjoy. Starting over is a fundamental part of this franchise's life cycle and it may just be you're ready to move on to something with more open ended narratives.
I, and most people strongly disagree that the last 2 were just as bad as the first three. I’m not going into detail into why they’re better, but I know so many people that can rewatch the first three but can’t rewatch the last 2. They were so dull in comparison, to call them all just as bad as each other is really ridiculous. There was MUCH BETTER action in the first 3, have you forgotten legendary Forrest battle and the last 45 minutes especially of DOTM??? WTF. Also, the human characters were a lot more likeable compared to the last 2 movies. So no, nobody is “pretending” it’s simply a fact that the first 3 are better than the last 2.
The box office numbers say it all too. It isn’t a coincidence that people lost interest after the first three movies.....
And the argument that they “ripped apart” earlier designs is an opinion, not a fact. I’m guessing you’re somebody who takes a strong liking to G1, and the only movie you want is a live action version of the 1986 movie?
It did? I know Angela Bassett voiced Shatter, what other stars voiced characters?
Yeah, because so many fans want something that's comfortable and familiar. They want a Transformers safe space. Every forum I've travelled, all of you Transfans are the same. You all think your nostalgic vision of Transformers is the center of the universe. You have no idea.
And overall I found the lore and characters and story in Age of Extinction to be more interesting than anything in the first three. The story of the Autobots being hunted by alien bounty hunters working for the mysterious Creators and with rogue paramilitary elements and capturing Prime alive while passing the remains of others to KSI, all so they can be melted down to make their own Transformers they control and Megatron can be reborn is, in my opinion, the most fascinating story in the movies, and one of the most fascinating stories in the TF brand.
You know what would have been "dull?" A fourth film that was more like the first three. More Autobots and N.E.S.T. fighting more random Decepticons recently arrived from outer space. What we got was far more interesting. I'd rather get to see Creators turning dinosaurs into Transformium and the Autobots and humans infiltrating Lockdown's ship than more random Decepticons fighting Epps, Lennox, and the Autobots.
Keep in mind, I like the first three films, but the difference in quality between the OT and the post-DotM films overall is zilch, and if anything I would pick Age of Extinction as being the best in my personal opinion. It wasn't a big difference in quality as an overall film, but it did a lot of little things and a few big things right that none of the films do in my opinion.
Have you ever watched the Bumblebee vs. Barricade fight from 2007? Or how blurry many of the action scenes were in the 2007 film? Some of them actually are very blurry, and I didn't dislike them as much as some critics, but I could totally see their point, too. In AoE and TLK the action is actually easier to follow and often less chaotic than some of the earlier movies. I will admit the some action scenes in The Last Knight don't always build well or have solid resolutions, but frankly I think things become much clearer, crisper, and easier to follow post-DotM, and that was a good thing. Plus, there are some great and underrated battles from the later films that don't get appreciated by fans.
Related, the robots are also more visually distinctive and easier to tell apart in the later films, both in design and in color. And that is a good thing for robot action scenes.
I'm not saying fans can't prefer some of the action scenes to others, but the later movies have some great and often very underrated scenes, like Dinobot Charge, the aerial fight in Chicago, and Stinger vs. Strafe,
You mean the human characters like Sam, Leo, and Sam's parents who many fans hated and the bland military guys who hogged the action from the Autobots?
Again, there's nothing wrong with fans preferring some of the humans over the others, but "likeable" is about as subjective as you can get.
Umm, many vocal fans actually DID verbally and in writing rip apart the earlier designs. That's not an opinion; that's a fact.
Now not liking or liking a particular design would be an opinion and not a fact, but it is a fact that many people hated the scrap metal Decepticons and insectoid faces in the first three films. Just like it's also a fact some Bay fans liked their designs.
And especially LoL at "I'm guessing you're somebody who takes a strong liking to G1." Guess which part of the brand the films are most heavily based on? G1. Guess what started it all? G1.
Yes, I enjoy both G1 and the Bay movies amongst other things Transformers, but you know which fans can be a lot like "Geewunners (a term I hate)." Fans of the earlier Bay films who can't accept the movies changing over time. The fictional universe, the direction of the story, the depiction of Optimus Prime and Megatron, and the cast of characters were going to change regardless after DotM. If fans don't like those changes, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with "quality." Life changes. Individuals die. Fiction reflects reality in some, although certainly not all, aspects. The fourth and fifth films didn't feature Sam or N.E.S.T. or Sideswipe and weren't original trilogy comfort zones? Too bad. Deal with it. Fans of the earlier Bay films had no problems with changes made from G1 to the films (which aren't as far from G1 as many fans think), but when the movies themselves changed after DotM (which was a natural point for the films to change direction, while also sharing many aspects of the previous formulas, that's a bridge too far? Time for fans to reap what they sow.
And you want to know one of the ways the films actually respect the source material the most? By continuing after Dark of the Moon! G1 didn't stop after Unicron was killed, much of the Season 1 cast killed, and Galvatron was lost in space. Just like the films didn't stop after Sam's story was resolved and most of the Decepticons and Sentinel were dead. Age of Extinction and The Last Knight have a lot of Season 3 inspiration. The Transformers being created as a race of mechanical slaves is right out of Five Faces of Darkness, and the dynamic of Decepticons is kind of an interesting subversion of Season 3's Decepticons. Whereas Galvatron in the third season was keeping his own faction and troops down with his insanity, to the point some threatened mutiny, in AoE and TLK he's literally the only one keeping the Decepticons together, and he's willing to use cunning and manipulativeness to get what he wants. Even the way AoE and TLK feel a little different from each other in terms of direction and story is reminiscent of how Season 3 was a lot less repetitive than early G1.
Again, I have no problem with fans preferring some of the films over the others. I myself have preferences. But a big difference in quality between 2007/RotF/DotM on one hand and AoE/TLK on the other? No way in Heck. That's just fans upset about a franchise they enjoy changing in terms of character, scope, visual designs, and story direction.
Wanting something comfortable and familiar isn’t necessarily a bad thing, considering the fact that most people wanted something more “comfortable” can be attributed to the reason why people didn’t like the fourth and fifth movies.
“I found the lore”, key word: I. That’s your opinion, not a fact. Everyone has different tastes, I found the transforming to be ridiculous away to tell a story, not to mention how they actually transformed LMAO, especially galvatron. And the fourth and Fifth did have attributes that were similar military wise, they were BOTH still HUGELY concentrated on military so saying that the 4 and 5th didn’t is just not true. I’m not saying that AOE didn’t have ANYTHING that wasn’t a improvement compared to the first three so I don’t know why you’re getting that from. Some qualities e.g. going deeper into the mythology I actually liked.
And I NEVER said that there wasn’t poor action scenes in the first theee movies, but they had action scenes THAT WERE MUCH MORE MEMORABLE. I say again, the Forrest battle or the last 45 minutes of DOTM were more interesting than anything the fourth and fifth produced in my opinion. And the robots being more distinctive is also subject to argument. They kept overdoing detail wise with how much parts were on a transformer that it made it less and less bearable to watch on the big screen e.g. I saw loss of people having to close their eyes in some action parts I.n TLK.
And yes, I do mean SOME of the cast from the previous 3 movies. For example, Shia May have been hated among some people but he was liked among others, and a lot of people liked Megan a Fox even though she was a bit of a poor actor. If you don’t believe me just literally type in “Transformers Shia Labeouf” on twitter and you will see a SHIT TON of people saying it was much better when he was in it.... So yes, there is a lot of people who prefer the older movies, and you can’t necessarily say that’s due to “nostalgia”, they were a lot more enjoyable in my personal opinion.
In terms of what u mean by “fans” ripping apart the designs, I NEVER disputed that. What I mean is I never saw the general audience complaining about the designs, only hardcore transformers fans. And please link where I said I can’t deal with Sam etc being in later transformers movies? I never said that lmao, my argument is that the first three were better than the last 2, stop putting words into my mouth. If you’re so desperate to hear my personal opinion, I’d rather transformers to be more TRANSFORMERS FOCUSED in the future, even though I know that’s not going to happen unfortunately.
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