Can Transformers 5 FIX The Entire Franchise

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by pie125, May 11, 2015.

  1. transformervic1

    transformervic1 HI!

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    Clicked on the page and saw the length of the scroll bar and thought holy SHIT.

    But this thread is entertaining nonetheless. I mean, no matter what we think, it's never gonna stop Paramount/Hasbro from coming up with new tf movies in this continuity until one absolutely FLOPS. Til then, we're STUCK. And guess what? We'll be stuck together. All of us. "Fans". "Haters". All stuck saying the same shit about the movies being good/decent/spawned from hell.

    Have a nice day :) 

    Well would ya look at that. 100th post. Huh.
     
  2. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    It's true that MW and BW2 Starscream were repaints of other character but repaints or not they still count as some version of the character to a degree and Movie Starscream isn't any different in that regard. As for Movie Starscream not looking and able to function like a transforming robot well again I turn to Leader Starscream.

    I never said BM got a free pass from the fandom though. Also BM got massive flak for changing the characters from BW in a pretty bad manner that they hated so the designs weren't the only thing people hated about the series. As for saying the movies have horrible writing some people say that's subjective since some feel that aside from ROTF which even some movie fans agree that it's terrible in a lot of ways they movies are generally well written enough even having awesome moments so in all honesty the quality of the movie's writing is often subjective.

    How do you know that? It may sound good in writing but it could look way off in practice.

    I'm sorry but it's silly to think that all villains in the movieverse are Decepticons or in some cases aligned with them. It's like saying Loki and Ultron in the MCU work with Hydra when the only thing they share in common is that they're villains. Lockdown is a major villain no question about that but you don't need to be a Decepticon in order to be a villain. Look at Pharma in IDW for example. He's an Autobot who never switched sides to the Decepticons at all yet he's still a very sadistic villain. As for Animated Lockdown he only had a Decepticon symbol on his toy but in the actual show he never had any insignia at all and while he did work often with the Decepticons it's only because they pay him well enough to get the job done. He also had no problems working with Sentinel to hunting down Decepticons since he ultimately has no loyalty to any faction.

    Had the drones showed signs of life before like Galvatron did before he revealed himself to KSI and gave them full life then yes you'd be right about that but they didn't thus even though Galvatron did have plans for them before giving them life they're still just drones that can be programmed to serve anyone with the right amount of tooling.

    KSI had been using Cybertronian tech after they picked up the bodies from the events of DOTM so it's highly likely that they used some of the Cybertronian tech to help them tamper with the metal to some extent.

    Again it's likely that KSI used some of the Cybertronian tech to help them make the metal move like that since their tech isn't anything like ours.

    Fair enough. Sorry about missing those posts.

    G1 Firestar transformed into a truck yet her robot mode showed no visible signs of truck kibble on her and the rest of the fembots turn into some sort of cars yet like Firestar showed no signs of vehicle parts on their robot mode so if you're not going to give Movie Megatron a free pass on his modes then we shouldn't do the same for the G1 fembots since they've committed that same sin.

    Same can be all said for the BM toyline which even then committed a lot of those impossible things more so then both Megatron toys.

    The only thing they share is that they're both mutated creatures that destroyed some buildings and that's it. The first American attempt at Godzilla was hated upon because the fans say that the people behind it tried to make him too realistic to the point of not having much in common with the Japanese Godzilla since the first American Goji looked more like a dinosaurian iguana whereas the Japanese Godzilla was more of a prehistoric creature that can live on land and on sea not being tied to any existing Dinosaur. Also the first American Godzilla didn't have the iconic breath the Toho version had and it actually ran from fights,was asexual when Toho Goji wasn't,and he got taken out very easly and was viewed as simply another animal to be wiped out and that to fans was a slap in the face to them and Godzilla as a whole because it went against what made Godzilla so special to begin with. The Japanese Godzilla was meant to not only be a mutated monter but also represent a force of nature that reminded humanity that it's not really that high and mighty in the grand scheme of things. Which is why people much prefer the recent Legendary Godzilla because that version understood and captured a lot of the iconic elements way more thus making the newer American Godzilla much closer to the original Japanese version.

    Ok fair enough. I missed that.

    But the thing is that the movies to a degree did manage to not use a lot of things the animated shows often do. For example most of the alt mode choices and the way were transformed was that they can avoid mass shifting as much as possible like how Starscream's alt mode is large so he had to transform into the way he looks to fit in scale with the other characters better and how Optimus's alt mode is meant to keep him large in both modes so in that regard they did succeded into keeping real life logic to a degree.

    But just because they're cartoons doesn't mean you can just throw logic out the window entirely. In fact people bashed Prime for not following a lot of the logic because it's going for a more movie styled feel thus it shouldn't have that much logic breaking. The DCAU also didn't throw logic entirely out the window so no cartoons don't have that excuse to cheat as much by that logic as well. Also how are the other TF styles any more realer looking then the movies? In fact some people complain that the movie designs are trying to be too real so I don't understand that complaint you're making in that regard.

    This is coming across as more of a personal nitpick rather then a valid complaint but it may be me just seeing it that way.

    You seem to be leaving out that most movie toys including Bumblebee had car modes that were able to capture the lines naturally as you would on a normal vehicle to a degree so I'm not seeing the complaint here.

    We could have a different design for Bumblebee later on in the movies that can do the thing you want.

    Do we honestly need to have everything explained to us though? It's good to make sense of things without question but is wanting to know how a license plate on Bee is able to bend really that important of a detail to point out? Like I said the metal they're made off is a very good indication alone that it's able to do that.

    I don't get this. Are you referring to the movie transformers as a type of parts forming group or are you still trying to make sense of where they go in robot mode because the way they transform?

    ROTF Leader Optimus being tough to transform is true no doubt about that however if they added a cheat on his chest people would gripe about that.

    I really don't see how the Alternators and Masterpiece Transformers are any more realistic looking and feeling then the movie Transformers. Aside from the real life alt modes their robot modes don't look anything like a robot that's from another world not to mention the kibble on some of them as well as proportions look awkward and silly if they got translated in a live action format and their details don't make me believe that they're from another world and that they're just blocky industrial robots made on Earth even though the G1 transformers were originally from another line. They may not have the things you hate about the movie transformers but that doesn't mean they won't have their share of things people will dislike about them.

    I believe a better example would be the designs they have in IDW right now. They evoke G1 greatly sure but they also have details and design elements on them that manages to also give them an alien,otherworldly vibe to them that works much better for a live action format then the blockier designs.

    Should we get a reboot in the future which is likely we could get the things you want to see though we'll have to see. Also I think I'm now finished doing this chat. It's getting to be off topic and I don't want to derail the thread so if you feel like wanting to continue this somehow like in PM we can do that. Either way we're going to have differing opinions in the end and I hope I'm not appearing to be saying yours is wrong because I'm not.
     
  3. moylan55

    moylan55 Well-Known Member

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    Junkions
     
  4. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTTLpUiT35U
     
  5. Grandum

    Grandum Well-Known Member

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    they COULD, but the odds of it happening is probably about the same as reports of real, actual dragons attacking New York tomorrow at 18:03 from the North west, wearing pink ballerina tu-tu's and turning people into 3" porcelain frog figurines with their dragon magic whilst singing the theme song of the Cleveland show backwards.

    It COULD happen, but it's not really likely.

    What's your Point? Other people like things, so therefore I have to support it? Imagine if you applied the same logic to pedophiles...

    HA! I wrote something similar after the first Movie.
     
  6. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I think it's the logic of hey I got whatever it was I wanted out of the films but none of the rest of you should ever get a chance at what you want out of a live action Transformers film because everything must stay the same in the live action Transformers cinematic universe until the end of time.

    Sort of like that thing of when we were all supposed to embrace change for the live action films but now we should never ever have the change of a reboot to Transformers. People want to have it both ways of old fans were supposed to accept change but now new fans shouldn't ever have to face change.
     
  7. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    Well it is different because the movie design was meant to be Starscream. The other two were just name slaps. Just because they're all Starscream doesn't make them the same there is a big difference between a toy that was originally designed for a completely different character and a design that was always meant to be Starscream.

    You didn't? Then what was all this?

    "Most characters that came after the G1 series like the Beast era series,RID,Unicron Trilogy before the movies came out and even series that came after the movies had characters that acted and looked little to nothing like their G1 versions at all too so why do we point to the movies as being the only franchise to do this? Because by that logic they're just as guilty as doing it as the movies."

    "Well no of course not. I was just making a statement that it seems that there's a form of double standards that condem the movies for daring to try something different like have characters not be like they were in the past yet give the other series a free pass for doing the same thing. If you think about it that's pretty unfair especially to fans of the movie designs."

    Twice you complained that fans have never condemned any other franchise for changing the designs. You never pointed out Beast Machines specifically but I pointed it out as proof that we have. And really Beast Machines is the only other time besides the movies that deserved the criticism. Though that being said, some fans will complain about ANYTHING... Almost every series has gotten just as much criticism as the movies. Remember the whole Truck not monkey debate. He still looks like Optimus no matter what he transform into.

    As for the writing... there's nothing subjective about it. That's how bad it is. Almost everyone agrees they are horrible movies. Not everyone agrees on which one is the worst or which one is the best but if you ask anyone they would say picking a best out of those movies is like choosing the lesser of four evils.

    From a general audience perspective. They don't really know who any the characters are. This is true weather you know what they're suppose to look like or not. A lot of characters look exactly the same because of the crappy designs so there's no way of telling them apart, and most of them are never even named on screen. Toy collectors will have a better idea of who they're suppose to be but the general audience is totally clueless. I actually know this for a fact because I went to see Revenge of the Fallen with someone who wasn't into Transformers and the entire way threw the movie he was asking me who all the characters were because so many of them were never named.

    Aside from no knowing who anyone is by name. There's also the fact that a lot of them aren't even really characters. Jazz was killed in the first movie... and no F's were given that day. Ratchet was killed in the last movie and still don't care. We never got to know who these characters were. They never did anything. They were just kind of there.

    Then we have characters who's motivations make no sense what so ever. Sentinel Prime.

    The human characters in these movies actually have a lot more character development than the Transformers do. You know who the best character in the first movie was. Lennox. He had that whole scene with his wife and daughter that makes you really want to see him get home alive. Of course then they completely abandon that in all the sequels as you never see them again.

    Speaking of things that are completely abandoned in sequels. Bumblebee talks at the end of the first movie. Four movies later and he still only has two lines of dialog at the end of the first movie. Jolt, he shows up for one scene and is never mentioned or seen ever again. The fact that the whole "Autobots are not needed anymore, the Decepticons have been defeated, lets kill them or kick them off our planet" has been revisited in ALL THREE SEQUELS. Seriously the government never learns their lesson, every movie keeps resetting them back to that. Mikala leaves Sam for no real reason other than because Megan Fox was fired.

    I think in order for it to be subjective, they have to be good enough for people to form their opinions based on what's actually there. The problem is there is nothing good there. Those movies are universally hated by pretty much everyone. Even the people who do actually like the movies usually admit you have to shut off your brain and enjoy the explosions like watching a fire works display. The writing is horrible. I've not seen one person who ever had anything legitimately good to say about the movies.

    Because I have their toys... Granted the movie version is never entirely accurate but it's as close as possible. He can transform without breaking his chest, even the Human Alliance figure which is probably the closest to his on screen model, can transform without breaking the chest. Jazz can do it too. There's really no reason for it. Prime Bumblebee however the head is stored under the center part of his hood. You have to break the front of the car apart as there is no way to get his head out without doing that.

    Again no. Decepticon and Hydra are not the same thing. Hydra is one specific group of villains in a universe with MULTIPLE groups of villains. There's also A.I.M. and the Sinister Six. Not everyone is Hydra. Some are just villains working on their own who aren't affiliated with any group. Decepticon is label which is actually worn by every villain in the Transformers universe.

    Hydra is a group founded by the Red Skull. It's a group that are all dedicated to the same cause. Decepticons were not founded by Megatron nor are they all dedicated to the same cause. Being Decepticon has nothing to do with loyalty. If that were the case then Starscream is not a Decepticon.

    What are you even talking about? They didn't show signs of life before because Galvatron hadn't infected them yet. Why would he need to infect them later in the movie if they were already alive before that?

    Also... something else that doesn't make sense. Why do you keep saying that Galvatron brought them to life if you don't believe they are alive? That's kind of contradicting your entire argument when you yourself keep saying Galvatron gave them life.

    Yeah I get that, but it's not relevant.

    No it's not likely at all. The transformers have never shown that ability. We don't have that ability. If it didn't come from our technology and it didn't come from their technology then they shouldn't be able to do it. That ability just came out of no where.

    Saying that it came from our tampering with their technology implies that we had the technology to make that happen which we don't.

    Saying that their metal is different from anything on Earth implies that the Transformers were already capable of doing that which has never been shown.

    Neither of these explanations works to explain why the human made Transformers behave differently than actual Cybertronians because neither of us has the technology to do that.

    I don't recall ever seeing them transform. Again except for Elita-One who was obscured by Optimus Prime so you can't even really see her alt mode. I did look them up though and sure enough there are pictures of their vehicle modes on TFWiki... I can see some details from their robot modes on their vehicle modes. Firestar has the same detailing on her arms that's on the side of her vehicle mode. Chrimia has her head crest thing sticking up in the back of her vehicle mode. Though really it only seems to be one detail that sticks out and the rest is well... horrible.

    That's all Godzilla ever was. All the other changes you talk about are really rather minor in the grand scheme of things. That's the equivalent of a Geewhiner argument. That everything different is automatically bad. There can be good changes too. To me changing from a man in a rubber suit to a more realistic design like the movie did is a good change.

    Now if Godzilla was changed in the same way as Transformers... then Godzilla would look like this.

    [​IMG]

    Why would Godzilla be a woman in a bird costume instead of a lizard? I don't know that's Micheal Bay logic.

    Oh the mass shifting. Technically there was mass shifting in the movies. The AllSpark transformed from a giant cube to a smaller cube. And I'm pretty sure the robots do it too. Despite them claiming that there would be no mass shifting in the movies there is. It's not always noticeable. Some times they're close enough to the same size that you don't really notice it.

    I think you might have misunderstood a little bit so I'll try to be more clear this time. It's not ONLY because they're cartoons. The style in which something is being made can change how realistic a person expects it to be. Yeah there are cartoons which are more realistic than others. Looking at Animated would you expect any realism at all from that show? That's like expecting Wile E. Coyote to fall off a cliff and actually die. Now something like Prime, yeah they were trying to be more realistic and I think they actually did a better job than the movies in some areas.

    Since you mentioned the DCAU, I can point out that yes they do throw logic out the window quite a bit. In fact all super hero cartoons do this. No matter how realistic the cartoon is they have all done this. Look at their masks. Whenever a character puts their mask on their eyes turn white. Not only that but the mask moves as if it's actually part of their face. They have expressive masks that white out their eyes. This is impossible to do in the real world.

    Now granted the live action movies can be just as bad... mainly any Batman movie... Instead of the eyes turning white, he magically gets black face paint to cover any skin that's showing between his eyes and the actual mask. Now people have complained about this in the movies but no one ever complains about the way masks work in the cartoons.

    As for the expressive masks... well the only way they could do that in a live action film would be to use CGI. Would you really want them to put CGI masks over everyone's faces just so they can work the same way they do in the cartoon or do you expect them to actually look real?

    As to your question of how other TF designs are more real than the movies... I've already explained that. If the movie designs were to transform realistically they would look like they were in accidents because their parts would all be scratched, bent, and non-existent.

    No, people who complain Bumblebee isn't a VW is a personal nitpick. Anything else is a valid complaint.

    I'm not leaving that out... that doesn't exist. There are no movie toys that don't have massive amounts of panel lines. Sideswipe, I really like his vehicle mode. I actually bought a non-transforming model of it. I have several of his actual toys including the Human Alliance figure and they all have panel lines. The HA figure probably handled him the best but it does still have them. There is no such thing as a movie toy that only uses the natural panels of the vehicle because it's freaking impossible with their designs.

    We could but then we're still stuck with his ugly face... or rather lack there of. Most of the Autobots actually have good faces but Bumblebee, the guy who gets the most screen time looks like G1 Optimus Prime after BW Megatron shot his face off. I actually prefer when he has his battle mask on because without it I feel like I'm looking at his internals rather than an actual face.

    They don't need to explain everything but they do need to explain some things. This being one of them. They actually do explain a lot of things that never needed explaining. Like that sound is an alien language. Well gee thanks I never would of known that if you hadn't told me, thanks for pointing out something I figured out on my own 5 minutes into the movie. They learned English from the internet. Well gee, you're able to find Sam threw his e-bay page so that would be the most logical answer woudn't it. They feel the need to explain the most simple of things that we probably could of figured out on their own but something like how the hell do they transform, you don't feel that's worth an explanation? Especially when they're defying all known laws of physics to do it. The only explanation I can come up with is magic. They transform by magic.

    You posted a response to me talking about vanishing parts which had nothing to do with vanishing parts so I was trying to figure out how your previous reply related to my quote.

    Alternators and Masterpiece are more realistic looking because they are real. They actually exist in the physical world. They're proof that you can have a highly articulated robot that transforms into a realistic vehicle.

    As for the "robot from another world" thing... They're giant robots who transform... that's already alien. How do you make something "look alien" we don't know what that would actually look like. Alien is anything we're not familiar with. So just being a giant robot is already alien enough because we don't have the technology to make that work.

    The kibble is realistic. No matter what you do they're going to have kibble. They should have kibble because the toys always have it. Awkward proportions, isn't that also alien. You want them to look alien and yet at the same time you want them to have the exact same proportions as a human. I don't get that.

    As for blocky... the vehicle modes are blocky so of course their robot modes are going to be blocky too. Though more recent transformers have also proven that it's possible to make something blocky turn into something else.

    They do add things like fake pistons around the joints which make them look like realistic robots. It's not a detail that ever showed up in the cartoons but it adds a touch of realism which even the movies don't have.

    And you were trying to accuse me of having a double standard. IDW designs aren't any more alien than any other Transformers design. They can be just as blocky as G1. There's also some awkward disproportionate designs in there as well. Pretty much everything you were just complaining is present in IDW.

    Eh... this can end here. :p 
     
  8. Grandum

    Grandum Well-Known Member

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    If this post had a like button I would click it like a man possessed
     
  9. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Droppin' Space Colonies

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    I have never agreed with you so much as I agree with everything you've said here.
     
  10. Jochimus

    Jochimus Sandwiches? Blimey, whatever did I give the wife?

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    This, pretty much. And "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" holds absolutely no water with me - we need a new production team, ESPECIALLY if they're really hot to trot on riding this "shared universe" gravy train that every studio in Hollywood now wants to board.
     
  11. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

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    If you asked the average movie goer if the Transformers movies are bad they would say this " Eh, they are ok, they just arn't for me" or they would say this "they are garbage" or this "I thought the first one was good and the third was alright, the other two suck."

    That is always how they respond, trust me, I have asked people about them. Whenever anyone on here says "EVERYONE SAYS THEY ARE TERRIBLE MOVIES" its just simply not true. Some people enjoy them, others hate them, and then some think they are just mediocre. It is always those three.
     
  12. Beastwarsfan95

    Beastwarsfan95 Sausage puns are the wurst

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    If transformers 5 is anything like transformers 1 or DOTM, they the franchise may still have hope. :) 
     
  13. LS Animation

    LS Animation Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see a movie that'd be set (somewhat 30-40% purely on Cybertron) because that would allow us to see a lot more of the awesome CGI Cybertron and robot interaction. There's no way they won't have human characters in the film but putting a third of the film in there could work but of course AOE did well in the box office they will hesitate changing much.
     
  14. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

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    LSanimation, your sig is to big my friend
     
  15. LS Animation

    LS Animation Well-Known Member

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    That's what she said! ^_^
     
  16. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

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    Did you really just say that....wow
     
  17. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    This comment makes no sense. You seem to be arguing that that the statement everyone says they are terrible movies is wrong but at the same time you're offering proof that it's totally true. According to you there is always one of three responses.

    1. "Eh, they are ok, they just arn't for me" Translation: I thought they were horrible and I don't understand why anyone would like this garbage but who am I to judge.

    2. "they are garbage" Pretty much the exact quote you claim not everyone agrees with.

    3. "I thought the first one was good and the third was alright, the other two suck." This is a picking the lesser of four evils situation. No one has ever actually claimed to like any of the movies the only thing they have ever claimed is which of the films they feel is the LEAST terrible. Also they don't always go in that order.

    For me AoE was the best... still horrible but an improvement over the other films. RotF was the second best. 2007 third. And DotM is the absolute worst.

    What order you put them in is really just personal preference but the thing is even though no one can agree on which is the best it doesn't even matter because they will all agree that they're all horrible.
     
  18. Beastwarsfan95

    Beastwarsfan95 Sausage puns are the wurst

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    tf 1>tf dotm>rotf>aoe for me. personally.

    and that's in terms of liking, not " which movie is the least terrible" their all good, but all movie quadrigolys have one or two duds.
     
  19. moylan55

    moylan55 Well-Known Member

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    I think they're all amazing and I know several people who agree with me. The truth is nobody can agree on anything when it comes to movies and that extends way beyond Transformers
     
  20. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

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    1. first off, when someone says "They were ok" doesn't mean "that movie was horrible and i don't understand why anyone could like this garbage..." HOW ON EARTH DOES THAT MEAN THAT?? Saying something is ok/decent doesn't automatically mean it is TERRIBLE, if you can't tell the difference between that then you have some serious problems buddy.

    2.Your're right, some people say that the movies are garbage, but that doesn't mean EVERYONE, EVERYONE means EVERYBODY, as in THE ENTIRE PUBLIC/POPULATION OF EARTH.

    3. "No one has ever actually claimed to like any of the movies the only thing they have ever claimed is which of the films they feel is the LEAST terrible. Also they don't always go in that order." WHAT A LOAD OF BS. I know tons...I repeat TONS of people say they like the movies (specifically the first movie). Case and point this article I Still Like Michael Bay's First Transformers, And I Am NOT Ashamed pretty much blows your statement right out of the water there.
     
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