Bumblebee Metascore & Tomatometer Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by transf0, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Hadlen_Weltall

    Hadlen_Weltall Whiskey Powered Mad Genius Gunpla and Cow Master

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Posts:
    11,720
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Builder's Den
    Likes:
    +15,756
    So far so good. the reviews are positive. Let\'s just hope is stays that way.. and if it\'s the reboot we\'ve been waiting for..

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Aimless Misfire

    Aimless Misfire Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Posts:
    2,620
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +4,407
    Age Of Extinction only got 18%? Yeah, rottentomatoes is real reliable. :rolleyes2 
     
  3. TheSuperion

    TheSuperion Harold, They're Lesbians.

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Posts:
    1,266
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Tennessee, god help me.
    Likes:
    +3,320
    No it doesn't. Let's take a look, shall we?

    Transformers (2007)

    Average Rating: 5.8/10
    Reviews Counted: 225
    Fresh: 129
    Rotten: 96

    Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

    Average Rating: 3.9/10
    Reviews Counted: 248
    Fresh: 47
    Rotten: 201

    Transformers: The Last Knight (Aka the film that killed Bayformers)

    Average Rating: 3.2/10
    Reviews Counted: 225
    Fresh: 34
    Rotten: 191

    And just for kicks, the original 1986 movie that people wearing nostalgia goggles claim is actually good, but wasn't exactly a hit at the box office when it came out:

    Average Rating: 5.3/10
    Reviews Counted: 23
    Fresh: 13
    Rotten: 10

    Oh dear. Now, let's take a look at some certified fresh movies on rotten tomatoes that also did gangbusters at the box office this year:

    Avengers: Infinity War

    Average Rating: 7.5/10
    Reviews Counted: 402
    Fresh: 338
    Rotten: 64

    Incredibles 2

    Average Rating: 7.8/10
    Reviews Counted: 329
    Fresh: 308
    Rotten: 21

    Deadpool 2

    Average Rating: 7/10
    Reviews Counted: 349
    Fresh: 289
    Rotten: 60

    I leave you to draw conclusions from the assembled evidence.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. f-primusunicron

    f-primusunicron Unicron Herald BladeZero

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Posts:
    3,642
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    Colombia (South America)
    Likes:
    +1,752
    RT is not as reliable as many people may think, but whatever, if anyone wants to believe them, go ahead, your are losing also many good movies(not transformers i mean, in general) that have been trashed completely by them(also movies that have been since forgotten or in the end became failures were VOTED some of the best on that site)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Music

    Music Primetimus Prime

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2014
    Posts:
    4,929
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +15,106
    YouTube:
    Yeah, it's clear the previous Transformers films were terribly received even when taking the actual score into account. I wouldn't say Bumblebee is anywhere near those ratings. The first film is decent, but Bumblebee is the only one that is genuinely good.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. Ra88

    Ra88 Dutchman!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Posts:
    10,285
    News Credits:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +2,231
    Amazing. Eleven years later and not only are people still fighting over Rotten Tomato scores, but they still don't even seem to get that it only measures how many critics did or didn't like it. :lol 
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. lordcryotek

    lordcryotek Watch for waspies

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2003
    Posts:
    7,786
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Location:
    Homeherenow
    Likes:
    +24,441
    I saw this last night and actually really enjoyed it, especially Dropkick and Shatter. I hope it's a sign of things to come, the Bay movies were all horrendous (though I enjoyed bits of DOTM). I think the things that stood out to me the most were:
    1. The robot characters were actually developed.
    2. You could actually see the robots in the fights scenes, they weren't Bay-blurrs.
    3. Little to no shaky cam, thank goodness.
    4. The humans were likable.
    5. The plot made sense.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Digger

    Digger Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Posts:
    17,074
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    302
    Location:
    Queensland, Australia
    Likes:
    +19,962
    Here’s a bright idea paramount. Maybe keep going with this reboot idea.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Septimus-Prime

    Septimus-Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Posts:
    249
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Likes:
    +129
    Crap, now the bayverse will continue... >>
     
  10. transf0

    transf0 “Well Connected” The GOAT

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    Posts:
    896
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +945
    Twitter:
    YouTube:
    “I leave you to draw conclusions from…misapplication of data?"
    Critics aren't the only moviegoers in the world. RT average ratings also aren't accurate, their formula weighs each reviewer differently. One wasn't just "decent". Even by the critics everyone holds in such high regard (again, I say this as I run a website criticizing film!), Bumblebee is a grand total of 5% higher than Transformers. Cinemascore was higher, every aggregate audience reception metric compiled objectively was higher comparing the two. If you are measuring how well it was received, which implies a question of gauging the sentiment of those it was released to, then just using RT scores is in no way an accurate representation. Even if you want to focus solely on critics, both films only received "generally positive reviews", the 60 range in Metacritic but A for 2007 and A- for Bee Cinemascores.
     
  11. FanimusMaximus

    FanimusMaximus Kuphead

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Posts:
    16,684
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Location:
    Florida
    Likes:
    +672
    Certified Fresh...

    Best Movie news I’ve seen since 2009
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Digger

    Digger Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Posts:
    17,074
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    302
    Location:
    Queensland, Australia
    Likes:
    +19,962
    Not unless they go with that full CGI Optimus Prime. Which I hope they do.
     
  13. TheSuperion

    TheSuperion Harold, They're Lesbians.

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Posts:
    1,266
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Tennessee, god help me.
    Likes:
    +3,320
    I don't know what you're referring to by rotten tomatoes "weighing" reviews differently. The only thing that sometimes varies from review to review is whether or not a mid-of-the-line score counts as fresh or rotten - and that decision is entirely based on how the reviewer would like it to be listed on the site.

    As for Metacritic, full confession: I think Metacritic is garbage. Primarily because they significantly limit how many reviews get on their site compared to rotten tomatoes. Now, while rotten tomatoes has sometimes been criticized as of late for allowing any dumbass with a website to add a review (which inevitably leads to at least a few clickbaity reviews from trash sites panning massively popular and/or critically acclaimed films), Metacritic's "standards," whatever the hell they are, are so inexplicably strict that even some of the top reviewers on Rotten Tomatoes are not listed - and yet they consistently count fucking IGN.com film reviews, despite the fact that IGN is widely acknowledged by not just film fans but also video game fans to be a garbage-tier website. (They regularly run ads for the very products they are reviewing, which is the main reason why they essentially have a 6 point review scale instead of a 10 point scale. Which is to say, they will never rate a AAA game below 5/10. Even a disaster like Fallout 76 managed to scrape by with that score, because they are obligated to not completely pan any game they happen to be running advertisements for.)

    This kind of bullshit is how you get middling scores for not just Transformers and Bumblebee, but also for fucking Avengers: Infinity War (at a whopping 68/100). Rotten Tomatoes isn't perfect, but as far as I'm concerned, it's vastly superior to Metacritic.

    Edit: Also, regarding Cinemascores, you are aware that its very difficult to get a score lower than B+ on that site? Like, Age of Extinction also has a A-. I won't go into detail about what I think about that film, but as far as I'm concerned the critics were absolutely right to tear it a new one. There are many other films that they have also rightfully panned, despite audience positivity. (I'm looking at you, Venom.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  14. transf0

    transf0 “Well Connected” The GOAT

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    Posts:
    896
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +945
    Twitter:
    YouTube:
    Nope. Directors and film critics have agreed numerous times Metacritic has far better standards and practices. RT has been criticized for an atrocious formulas, causing Black Panther to be one of the best films of all time (lmao) on their own list and stuff like this: Rotten Tomatoes changes up the formula, adds 200 critics in new diversity push. You're cherry picking with IGN. RT has IGN. Your whole post is about one site. I hope you realize critical aggregators only care about the reach of a site, and IGN certainly has reach. In fact, RT lists pageviews as their main eligibility barrier.

    RT's trashness has also been proven empirically: Whose ratings should you trust? IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic, or Fandango?. Metacritic is vastly superior, and it's not even an opinion. Every sample taken with larger and larger sample sizes will always have a normal distribution. Anything that doesn't is deeply flawed in methodology or sample, and RT is then atrocious. Metacritic is far superior.
     
  15. TheSuperion

    TheSuperion Harold, They're Lesbians.

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Posts:
    1,266
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Tennessee, god help me.
    Likes:
    +3,320
    Yeah, no, I'm done. I'm not going to have a long debate with someone who probably unironically uses SJW as a derogative elsewhere on the web - and for all I know, on this site too. And that's without going into how you offered not one shred of evidence to back up your substantiation that directors and film critics agree Metacritic is better than Rotten Tomatoes. (Which critics? Which directors? You know there's scores of them out there, right?)

    I will say though: I read that article you posted, and it by no means proves that Metacritic is better than Rotten Tomatoes. In fact, I'd argue that it's absolutely bullshit how the writer weighed Metacritic scores on the basis of their 100 point scale, and then proceeded to weigh rotten tomatoes scores solely by the percentage of reviews that were fresh and rotten - despite the fact that rottentomatoes also has a 100 point score for every movie. (Most people who make use of rotten tomatoes regularly factor both scores into their decision making, not just the fresh/rotten scale.)
     
  16. transf0

    transf0 “Well Connected” The GOAT

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    Posts:
    896
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Likes:
    +945
    Twitter:
    YouTube:
    Yes, you seem to be devolving into ad hominem because you can't support your point. What are you going on about? You say you won't have a long debate and proceed to write walls of text? Lmao. If you actually looked at my post history, you'd see I actually responded critically to people who use SJW as an insult. But nice presumption, it does say more than I could in a short post.

    As for the critics/directors thing, I'll agree to just taking that out of the discussion. I was basing that on my personal conversations with filmmakers and critics, which obviously you can't ascertain the veracity of.

    The vast majority of people only look at the fresh rotten scale. No idea what you're talking about. The article only focused on that because, that's what RT wants to be identified with, that's what's in its marketing, and that's the only thing the vast majority of people see…I mean…it's in the name of the site. You can check the difference between Metascores and RT "actual" scores for 50 films and see that they're usually very different. And so the analysis still holds weight. It's completely fair to analyze the two based on what they primarily advertise as a great measure of how good a movie is.

    Studios Are Right: Rotten Tomatoes Has Ruined Film Criticism — Opinion
    Martin Scorsese goes nuclear on Rotten Tomatoes in a scathing column
    Rotten Tomatoes Is 'the Destruction of Our Business,' Says Director
    https://io9.gizmodo.com/david-cronenberg-says-rotten-tomatoes-is-wrecking-film-1677869612
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  17. shockwavedalek

    shockwavedalek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Posts:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +190
    hopefully paramount will take the reviews and decide that this film worked better as a reboot and if they follow that view well get more great movies like bumblebee not confined by bayformers continuity.
     
  18. AshleyCuadra

    AshleyCuadra Tieria Prime

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Posts:
    2,610
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +878
    Read the articles don’t follow RT ok
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. TheSuperion

    TheSuperion Harold, They're Lesbians.

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Posts:
    1,266
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Tennessee, god help me.
    Likes:
    +3,320
    Raising criticisms about the Black Panther movie being rated so high, and more importantly, diversity, are massive red flags on the internet these days. If you're not one of the many people I have met who usually devolve from such comments into even less nuanced complaining about SJWS, feminazis, and the like, then I apologize. I've just learned to be far more careful with how I spend my time on the web, given how many conversations I have had that end up being an absolute waste of time, as the guy on the other side of the argument descends into complete insanity.

    As for the articles you posted, half of them were substantiating the point you were making about binary rating scales - which, fine, I agree to disagree. But the other two? One was a response from Brett Ratner, a grade A hack who, among other things, was partially responsible for tanking the X-Men franchise with its third installment. And the second was about an article from Martin Scorsese that was primarily about him being butthurt that Darren Aronofsky's pretentious piece of shit Mother! bombed so badly with audiences.

    Also, it's not like Rotten Tomatoes is alone in being criticized. For some of the flack it gets from the film industry, Metacritic gets significantly worse flack from people with vested interest in the video game industry - in large part because major game corps refuses bonuses to productions teams if their final products don't score extremely well on the site.

    https://kotaku.com/metacritic-matters-how-review-scores-hurt-video-games-472462218
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/05/15/igns-prey-score-is-why-video-game-reviews-need-to-end/

    Ultimately though, this debate is revolving around a single central point: whether Bumblebee is actually a better movie than the first Transformers from Michael Bay. And well, I haven't seen Bee yet (I'm going in just a few minutes actually), I already know it's a better film by the virtue of the fact that it has zero peeing robots, zero racial stereotypes, zero pro-American military jingoism, zero sexual objectification of its female lead, and so on. There are so many fundamentally offensive things about the first film, let alone the later films by Bay, that I don't give a shit if some critics gave it a pass back in the day because Bay knew how to blow stuff up real good. Standards have changed in just a decade, and that's a good thing in my view.
     
  20. shockwavedalek

    shockwavedalek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Posts:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +190
    ive seen the film myself, its by far the best transformers film
     
    • Like Like x 1