Bumblebee Box Office Discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Music, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    It's at $455 million so it shouldn't be hard,my friend!Thanks for your contribution to the cause!
     
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  2. Shockwavers

    Shockwavers Well-Known Member

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    After more than a decade. I think Bumblebee is the redemption we deserve.


    And I honestly still believe we should Black Panther this movie.
     
  3. NemesisPrime12

    NemesisPrime12 Well-Known Member

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  4. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone want to know the reason why TLK bombed? And it bombed hard; according to some sources, it lost Paramount $100 million dollars.

    The Last Knight had shot itself in the foot from the very beginning; firstly, it was over-budgeted (a production budget of $260 million). The other thing was it was a big summer blockbuster; the overall box office returns, just over $600 million, would be considered a hit for most films. Hell, the first Transformers had a worldwide box office of $700 million and it was a box office success.

    However, for most big summer blockbusters these days, anything less than $750 million is considered a write-off. And that's what happened with TLK; especially when it was coming hot off the heels of two films that grossed over $1 billion.

    TLK was not alone in that regard that year; King Arthur, Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets, Pirates of the Caribbean 5, The Dark Tower and The Mummy were all box office failures. Many people have called 2017 the worst summer box office in over a decade.

    However, what's very interesting is that the MCU was unaffected by all this; Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 and Spiderman: Homecoming were both box office hits. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 outgrossed its predecessor and Spiderman: Homecoming was the second-highest grossing Spiderman film.

    The reason why MCU films are box office successes is because they have sensible budgets; only four films so far (three Avengers films and Captain America: Civil War) have had budgets of more than $200 million. There's also more of a focus on making a quality product, rather than trying to spend half the budget on making things blow up.

    The one thing Hollywood needs to learn is that, when it comes to spending, quantity does not necessarily equate quality; look at Jurassic Park. Made on a $63 million budget (which would be small fry today) when CGI was in its infancy, yet it had landmark effects, a brilliant plot and stellar performances. 25 years later, it holds up as one of the best films of all time.

    For modern examples, look at Cloverfield; it was made for a budget of $25 million dollars. End result: a genuinely gripping, suspenseful film that ranks as one of the best monster films of all time.

    Another example; Trollhunter. Trollhunter was made for a little over $3.5 million; compared to most Hollywood blockbusters, that's practically loose change. End result: a wonderfully entertaining film, with some of the best special effects I've ever seen.
     
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  5. Shockwavers

    Shockwavers Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    @Nathanoraptor I don't want to make fun of you and I don't have the intention to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
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  6. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    If they make another one I think they need to step it up a little to keep it fresh,you know.I think what they did here was great but it works for one movie.
     
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  7. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    Was this an attempt to make fun of me?

    Well, it's actually pretty funny. Kudos to you, Sir/Madam!
     
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  8. Shockwavers

    Shockwavers Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to make fun of you and it was not my intention. I just was reading that post (which had news that was brought up earlier) and than I thought back to Agent Burns saying that line. Like wouldn't it be funny if someone was actually explaining why TLK did so poorly and that Agent Burns would respond with "yeah we know"

    Worst of all I was imagining Ron actually telling that explanation
     
  9. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    And it was really funny.

    But, seriously, anyone who knows anything about box office trends knew that TLK was not gonna fare well.
     
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  10. Shockwavers

    Shockwavers Well-Known Member

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    The signs were already there. The domestic box office that kept going down since the third movie. But like Memo said "The darkest nights produce the brightest stars". TLK had to fail spectaculary to make everyone involved with the movies "Man, we should really change things around and actually make work of it" before TLK Bumblebee was a side thought to the franchise. Now it's both their salvation and also their way to a clean slate.
     
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  11. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    Well, AOE still did rather well in the United States and was largely considered an alright film by audiences; it's not one of the better entries, but it's still pretty enjoyable.

    I think even if TLK had been a box office success, we'd be going in the same direction we are going in now; Bay made it clear that TLK was his last film as a director and there's a note of finality in the ending. Bumblebee, ultimately, did what Bay, Spielberg and Paramount intended it to do; be the first in a whole slate of spin-off movies to set up the TFCU. That's what the whole "writer's room" idea was supposed to do.
     
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  12. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    By who? On IMDB the film is pulling a 5.7/10 - for comparison, TLK is 5.2/10 so just off that metric alone, apparently people didn't think it was that much better than TLK.

    Bay said DOTM was his last film. And then he said AoE was his last film. So just because he said TLK was his last film means nothing given he's come back twice and Paramount was desperate enough both previous times that they paid him a $10 million dollar bonus before filming for one, and the other was the ticket Bay cashed in for enough leverage to get his own personal project; Pain and Gain, produced by Paramount.

    No it didn't, if anything, Bumblebee stands to do the complete opposite of what TLK was trying to set up, because of the sheer amount of timeline contradictions that render the very idea of Bumblebee being a prequel to the Bay films impossible. Like, y'know, Bumblebee not being around during WWII, S7 not having Megatron frozen in their basement given how they had no idea what these transforming robots were when they encountered them, Soundwave not being on Earth before Bumblebee (because in case you forgot, DOTM heavily implied that he/the Decepticons had something to do with the cancellations of the Apollo 18 and 19 missions...which were canceled September 2nd, 1970. Bumblebee doesn't arrive on Earth until 17 years later), and everybody speaking fluent English despite the internet only getting built by Decepticons during the film itself.

    The TFCU is fucking dead. Because if you haven't noticed, nobody really gives too much of a shit about them anymore if they aren't Marvel or Godzilla - sure, the Lucas and Hobbs spin-off had some super bowl trailers but strip away the Fast and Furious connection and it looks like a generic action-comedy (granted an unapologetically cheesy one in the best way possible) - change the names of Johnson and Staham's characters and it could be its own stand alone film. Dark Universe was DOA with The Mummy, the DC CU is a complete joke given DC's natural rivalry to Marvel in everything, and even Disney utterly managed to screw up Star Wars between the controversy surrounding The Last Jedi and Solo's complete failure to launch at the box office.

    And the writer's room? That was Lorenzo's idea and the fact the big first outing of what it was supposed to be capable of was TLK? It's unlikely Paramount will ever give the rest of what that shitshow produced another glance.
     
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  13. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    They were all speaking fluent English before Optimus even mentioned Earth to Bumblebee in this movie so it doesn't make sense either way,it's just something that movies do..it sounds better like that than just subtitles but there's no logical explanation,just the artistic liberty the movies take sometimes.
     
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  14. Viper2005

    Viper2005 Active Member

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    This is the final week BB will be in theatres here, so I did my duty one last time!

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Shockwavers

    Shockwavers Well-Known Member

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    Don't get any deader than that. Except maybe the Dark Universe
     
  16. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Red and black red and black

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    I certainly hope not. I just think it's okay that we should just stick with being "movies with possible sequels" and "spin off movies" put into it. Just...let's just kill the idea of a CU, yeah? I mean, there's reasons for why the MCU is as successful in a way that I think it is very, very difficult to replicate. Iron Man came at a very good time when super hero films were kind of coming up. 2008 saw Iron Man, a critical success, and The Dark Knight, a successful followup to a successful Batman reboot. Next part of the puzzle is Kevin Feige, who is Marvel fanboy, and had always planned to build up the nascent MCU through years. It would take 4 years before we finally got Avengers. We had movies that built up the core characters before we got the team up, because Feige understood that you needed to build up the characters before you can even attempt a team up. Third part of the puzzle is Disney itself. Handling of the MCU was given wholesale to Feige...and they staffed Feige with a committee of comic book experts to help him shape the MCU. Disney did the movie world a favor by this. Reduce or remove corporate meddling, and let Feige take the reigns artistically.

    No other studio really has the chops for this. It's easy to forget that when Iron Man came out, we didn't even hear anything about a "Marvel Cinematic Universe." It never really even clicked until Avengers, and we really found out what this meant with a "Cinematic Universe." Building the MCU was a combination of good timing, a good captain at the helm, and the corporate entity largely hands off on the project. The way Universal wanted to ram rod the Dark Universe, and the way Paramount wanted to do a TFCU right off the bat, and how Warner Brothers just crammed the DCEU without even realizing what made the MCU strong to begin with.

    Now they're all dead, and I don't think anyone cares. The MCU is one of those once in a life time things, and I can't believe it can be easily replicated. MCU was a huge risk in all levels of it's early days. It was something that has literally never been done before, and Avi Arad had stepped down from Marvel Studios believing it was too much of a risk. Plus, imagine being Disney. Going on a venture for an IP you paid a fuck ton of money for, in a direction that has never been gone...and you're literally giving artistic direction over to one guy who isn't even part of your corporate structure.

    I just want to see movies. I don't want to hear talk about a CU before we get a solid story. Let's just have the Transformers story stand on it's own before branching out and trying to replicate the MCU formula. Trying to write up a CU is what really killed AoE and TLK's integrity. While I liked those movies, as unpopular an opinion it is, I can definitely say that story and continuity were certainly compromised for the sake of trying to cram it into a MCU shaped box without any care for whether or not it could fit in said box.

    TL-DR fuck CUs. Just make strong stories that stand on their own regardless of whether it's part of a shared universe or not.
     
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  17. OneSimpleIdea

    OneSimpleIdea Well-Known Member

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    From Hasbro earnings on the front page of TFW...

    Transformers: Bumblebee Movie

    • Mr. Goldner stated that Transformers: Bumblebee made the Transformers Franchise re-engage with families.
    • Hasbro is very happy with the critical success of Bumblebee.
    • Transformers: Bumblebee is very profitable for Hasbro as well.
    • Home Release will be available on 2019 1st Quarter.
    Maybe some more chicken littles can come in here.
     
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  18. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector TFW2005 Supporter

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    That's actually been the franchise's problem from the start, though. It's basically Schrödinger's cat. It's part of a larger story/universe and yet the same time not. They tell all the writers not to worry about continuity AKA stories that stand on their own regardless of the bigger picture, yet when the movies DON'T share a universe (or at least its overarching rules) the critics and the audience and the fans rightfully complain.

    It's the mindset you've shown in this post I'm quoting that Bay and co. share and that's been probably the biggest problem this series has. No one gives a crap to make it uniform, make it make sense. It's just a bunch of cars, trucks, tanks, and planes smashing into each other for 2.5 hours and everyone goes home with a daffy smile on their faces. (Or they're supposed to and end up not because the whole thing disappointed them.)

    If they end up with one, it doesn't have to be as extensive as Marvel's, it could be a trilogy, just as long as it's cohesive and doesn't ruin the sequels making them pointless or retconning the first film to the point it couldn't logically exist because none of the threads fit together.

    Bumblebee is actually a GREAT starting point for a new universe and new storyline. Forcing it to be a subpar prequel that's out of step with the rest of the films is a TERRIBLE idea. And Bumblebee is a good and solid film on its own, but it definitely ended with an open ending showing the rest of the Autobots arriving to their new camp on Earth and we know the Decepticons will continue coming to hunt them down. Why would we not see a sequel to that? Why would we not want to? Why would we want another film that takes the franchise in a different direction AGAIN? Is it really so bad to want a cohesive storyline and universe? I mean, my goodness, even Hasbro's starting to get that the Aligned Continuity was a bad mistake and they forced square pegs into round holes and people complained (rightfully so). If they can get it, Hollywood SHOULD get it.

    Star Wars and Star Trek are both good cases in point. Star Wars, more or less (regardless of whether or not the audience/fans liked a specific episode) has stayed on point and been IN that universe that was created. None were really standalone by the end of it, even though each of them was more or a solid film on their own. Star Trek, spawned from the original series, created a series of 10 films, plus spin offs. The reboot is more or less a pre-sequel that doesn't crap all over what came before it. It's clearly stated that it's an alternate timeline because Spock and the Vulcans presence changed history and whoever they were currently and who they were going to be in the future (Spock Prime's timeline) are now not one and the same. So, both universes started from the same point but deviated away from each other because of the time travel and neither one is canceled out.

    Transformers has NEVER had that much thought put into it. It's a shame. Outside of comics, no one's actually given a rat's @$$ about these characters other than to make money and sell toys and that's a shame. They could do great things with this franchise if we could shake off the Bay years and Hasbro would pull their heads out of their @$$es and di Bonaventura was given his pink slip.

    It's really not difficult to create a universe with common sense and taste, it's who's at the helm that's the problem.

    Please don't ever make movies for people, please.
     
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  19. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Red and black red and black

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    Well, I'm not necessarily saying that universes shouldn't be shared. It certainly helps for franchises like Transformers. I just see the problem of trying to make it like the MCU, this big, sprawling universe of movies, TV, media, and such colliding into one epic thing. That's what I'm saying we should avoid. There's a bunch of long running franchises that have gotten by with just being "movies with sequels." Looking at Star Wars 1 through 6, the Mission Impossible movies, and the Fast and Furious movies.

    I mean, we do agree for the most part but I think my wording is where you're getting hung up on and I probably could've been more clear. Like, Transformers 1 through 3 had a sense of actual continuity to it. The Transformers came to Earth in the 2007 movie, bu in DOTM we found out they've been here for longer...and honestly it's plausible because it was explained that Cybertronian presence on Earth was purposefully being hidden by the governments of the world. I think it was around Age of Extinction when we got the idea of a TFCU being thrown about, and I do see what AoE was trying to accomplish...to build a rich lore and universe in a single movie in which you can branch out from. Remember Paramount talking about the potential of movies like Transfomers in the Age of Antiquity!?

    That's where I think Paramount went wrong. They wanted to try turning TFCU into the next MCU...just like Dark Universe, DCEU did, and we know how those ended up, dead dead dead. While the TFCU also died with TLK, you can easily see how AoE and TLK suffered for trying to start up a CU with the franchise. Was that the only thing wrong with those two movies? No, not at all, but I can absolutely see that being a problem from the top down as Paramount was hoping that they could strike magic with the idea of a TFCU. Like I've said time and time again. A CU can only be done with TIME and PATIENCE. You can't cram years of build up into one or two movies and think it's gonna fly.

    You don't need to be a "cinematic universe" is all I'm saying. Star Wars, Mission Impossible, and Fast and Furious have done just fine without it. I mean, I **LOVE** Bumblebee. It's the kind of Transformers movie we should've gotten from the get go. Well, as I said before, I actually liked AoE and TLK in an un-ironic way too. They were silly, campy and stupid but in ways I actually expected out of Transformers. Like silly ol' G1. They were surprisingly nostalgic with how their content was handled and it felt like watching episodes of G1...which I dug. But back on Bumblebee, yeah. I'd love to see a sequel. But without Knight at the helm I'm going to hold back my enthusiasm.
     
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  20. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    There's the Monsterverse Legendary's setting up right now and so far people are liking how it's turning out so far because of how it's taking it's time to establish the world the monsters reside in are leading up to Godzilla Vs Kong in 2020 and hopefully onward. So if anything that's proof that a CU outside of the MCU does work after all.
     
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