So... I've seen some of his more "questionable" art. It's um... interesting, to say the least, but I don't think IDW is going to let him draw that stuff.

 

Subjective things exist within the mind. Objective things do not exist within the mind. THAT is the logic I'm using.

Any opinions or preferences, any beliefs or world views in fact are subjective. But stuff like physical objects are not subjective. Our perceptions of physical objects are also subjective, though usually the kind of subjectivity we can usually agree with. What is or isn't sexually attractive isn't, notably when we have examples of sexual attraction to non-cissexual individuals.

Splitting hairs and majority opinion in this discussion is irrelevant.

Well I know I didn't before, but you did clarify. How sufficiently, that's up to you.

Aren't you implying that this implied exploitation is a bad thing? I'm very confused now.

I definitely do realize that. But are you implying that the writer or artist should avoid portraying characters in a way however realistic, because it will be enjoyed by the audience in a "wrong" way?

Seriously, I want to understand the objection here.

I wasn't aware that we were talking about such an instance...

We ARE talking about Flareup from that one Botcon comic, right?

Apologies is that's not an accurate analogy, but that's what it seems like to me. I don't think we're understanding each other. Or at the very least, I don't understand what you're trying to say at all.

Everyone is "sexualized" during puberty. I assume by the context, you mean "eroticized". If so, so what? There are a great many heterosexual males and homosexual females that enjoy seeing an eroticized female body, so such eroticized female bodies are frequently displayed in the media. That's what they enjoy, and I don't see anything wrong with that. If you want it to be more "equal", instead of trying to take away what the hetero males and homo females enjoy, IMO it would be better to increase representation of eroticized male bodies. Otherwise, I don't see why this inequality is negative in any way.

Well I'm glad we agree on something! =p

Shouldn't they be portrayed as if they have free will though...?

I'm pretty sure tere are examples of male TFs that have rounded legs and other features.

It happens a lot to me, I understand. =)

And what you consider to be a "sexy pose" isn't necessarily what I would consider as such. There are much broader definitions of "sexy" out there than you're implying.

I hope so too. Your stance is a very interesting one, and I hope to understand it more. It touches on a lot of issues that I've struggled to understand before, like the taboo of female sexuality, which as a hedonistic godless heathen myself I find to be a very alien concept. =p

But we might want to take this to PMs in case the thread is in danger of getting derailed.

 

The way this thread's been going you'd think this is about Yuki Oushima being hired instead of Sakamoto (even if Sakamoto did work as Oushima's assistant.)

 

In Theory.

any way as i said earlier, hentai is how many artists break into the industry, over there, its just what you do to get noticed, it shouldn't be held against him.

 

SPLIT LIP, orangeitis, why don't we all just take a breath and look at some gay kiddie porn?
 

 

Thanks very much for the info! I don't remember how that rumor started and I'm sorry that I perpetrated a misconception.

I must say that Erik drawing is boss as hell!

 

When are you posting it then?  

 

Is all about SPLIT LIP all the time?

 

Comic books don't stop at Transformers.

Portrayal of female characters (and minorities) is a big issue (zing!) in the comic book industry and it's saddening to see so many people still cannot understand the situation from anything other than their own male privilege point of view.

-Sexy female characters is not a problem at all - but it is when 99% of female characters are intentionally drawn to arouse, and just that. Female characters don't have the same design variety as male characters, and it would be nice if that could finally change - and no, the answer is not to get rid of all sexy females, because some people are physically more attractive than others - but more variety would be nice, yes.

-A lot of people fail to realize that the male 'superhero' look is not something for the girls to drool over, like the hot sexy female characters are for guys. It's intended for the guys again, and it's called the 'male power fantasy'. If artists started drawing the male characters with female preferences in mind, the internet would explode, because people don't like seeing Captain America having a 'cute ass'.

-I personally think it's even sadder when robot artists (fan or official, doesn't matter) start drawing the sexy fembot pin up stuff. It was fun, once, now please stop. These are not sex robots, thanks.

Don't mind the 'Arcee frame' body type, but again, even in Transformers more variation in body types would be nice. Not because I think TF is/should be the standardbearer for PC correct female portrayals, but because adding the same variety for females adds a ton of new options for character designs.
People don't flip out because Flamewar just had a couple of annoying poses and 'jiggle lines'. That would be silly. It's that entire backlog of knowledge that goes behind it that just makes it - can we just call it that?- slightly unfortunate.
(But I think we can all agree the initial rage over this was too much and the final comic is actually not bad at all)

-Privilege is not a 'dirty' word. Just saying, since I used the word earlier.
It understandably might anger some people, because they might think privilege means an unfair advantage that you don't deserve and that you get called out on. There's nothing wrong with privilege, but it does mean you have an advantage in a certain way, and it would be hella nice if people could take a step back sometime and realize: 'O yeah, things are going my way because I'm part of group [X]'.

Whenever I see someone 'defend' tits&ass in comic books it often boils down to the same, male-oriented reasons. That things are somehow already fair. That it's not a big deal. That 'I know a girl who thinks it's fine the way it is'. And if you're that girl who thinks it's fine the way it is, more power to you!

But the problems are there. It's changing. Slowly. A female character changing her outfit into something that's more practical and doesn't look like bodypaint. A teenage muslim girl becoming a superhero. The most popular superhero of all time getting a (very decently written) black successor in one universe, and having a female counterpart in another.

But the problem will keep existing for a lot longer if people keep quiet about it, or worse: keep attacking those who are raising their voices. There's nothing sadder than being called a 'social justice warrior' (since when was fighting for social justice ever a bad thing?) or -as the perfect example of male privilege and insecurity, hilariously so- men aggressively 'fighting' feminism, or blaming other men who are defending more decency are somehow 'pussy whipped' or must be trying to get into women's pants. Because again, in the minds of those types of guys, everything is about male power - so obviously a man losing power to a woman must be a bad thing.

And that's precisely why the comic book industry needs to stop reinforcing and encouraging that mentality, and start growing up and telling artists: no, there's no reason why you should draw a 16 year old girl as a double-D porn star. No, a female doctor is not dressed like that. No, someone does not casually hang over a balcony 'presenting'.

As somebody who draws for a living, I know a lot of other artists, including a couple who like drawing 'them naughties'. I KNOW there is no ill will involved. That's not my point. But we all need to be aware of the situation we're in, and how we are contributing to them/what message our work brings across.

And finally, just like the obligatory sex scenes in movies, drawing 99% of your female characters voluptuous is kind of sad, because these aren't the fifties anymore, and if anyone wants to see hot girls you can just type words into a computer and it will give you rows and rows of just that. If you're buying comics to see some nice racks you're doing something wrong.

 



Sorry to so massively derail this thread, but some of the responses and defenses in this thread are just so mind-bogglingly backwards. Although I'm sure he has already completed the work by now, I wish Mr. Hayato Sakamoto the very best. I'm greatly looking forward to MTMTE #39 and what matters to me is: if it's good, I support it. That piece of art he made for the cosplay winner seems promising. I know it's copying the scene from MTMTE #15, but it's evident he's got the style down.  

 

Digilaut to thread:

Told [ ]
Super-Told [ ]
Maccadam's TOLD Oil House [X]

 

You can take your privlege talk and shove it.

I'd like to cash in some of that elusive male privlege everyone's akways telling me I got. Barely make enough money to keep the lights on, but no, yeah, I got a penis so life is just served up to me on a golden platter.

So you're telling me that women's romance novels are covered in shirtless buff guys because men like that? Spare me.

First world collegic nonsense.

 

Long and short of it:

People dislike when something they personally dislike gets attention. In the same way 'my friend said they like it' is used as an excuse, saying 'I know someone who doesn't like it' is just as irrelevant.

Someone speaks for themself, and no one else. If someone doesn't like something, they don't need your help, the can say it themselves. Championing a stance for someone else is pointless.

The 'it normalizes this' or 'it influences that' arguments are also irrelevant. People can separate reality from fiction. This is just used as a tactic to make people think your opinion is objective rather than subjective.

 

Yay! It's good to hear IDW getting new artists

 

I'll be looking forward to this issue. I really like Hayato's work in the Botcon comic last year. One of my favorite drawn comics from Botcon.

 

I got something better~

She's worthy  

Strika by DashAndScoots on DeviantArt

(slightly NSFW) ^ I'm glad the first time I tried to draw Transformers, it was for this... -sigh- the things I do for jokes...

 

And another thing, why the hell does a man dictate what women find attractive? Maybe some of them like buff dudes on comics! Maybe you should find out before writing off an entire half of the planet and telling them what they can and can't find attractive?

That sounds like a power fantasty to me.

Look, I'm not trying to start shit here. I consider myself a feminist, I do, but this kind of nonsense deprived women of agency. Social justice CAN be a bad thing when we treat other beings like delicate flowers in the snow and not real people. The idea is so appealing I think we lose sight of the humanity of it all.

 

I Don't have the time or energy to tell you whats wrong with most of this, so I'm just gonna let this lie, except for one thing.

Don't Go throwing race into this it has nothing to do with it, as a black guy i'm insulted your going to even try and connected the 2 things as some sweeping change thats connected

 

And Digilaut, you're an artist, dude!

You should want people to draw whatever they want! That's their choice and their gift! Your art doesn't need to push some agenda or tick some check box! You wanna draw titties? Draw them!

 

Focusing On quality art and stories?

Some one get this Hot head out of here!

 

Quality has to take a backseat to filling quotas and making sure no one's feelings are hurt! I'd much rather all media I consume be stale, inoffensive tripe!