Man, let's just say it how it is. If people at home got to get a loose set without paying the full convention price like all the rest then for some reason it would offend those who are attending. Why? I have no idea! They're paying for AND RECEIVING a full blown experience and then some. They're paying for A LOT more than just some figures. This whole idea that they need to keep charging the way they do to keep people interested in coming is quite honestly the biggest load of crap in this thread. If the money were there, I wouldn't have any problem making the arrangements to go to the con myself. NONE. I'd love to be able to go, sadly, unless they come to within reasonable driving distance then that won't be likely to happen. I don't think I'm alone here either. How many people around do you suppose decide NOT TO go to the convention because they don't like the exclusive set? I don't think very many, because that's not the main reason why people go!!! Say what you want about convention exclusives of the more distant past, but a lot more people had a lot more accessibility to items from those conventions without having to have been there. So long as interest in Transformers continues to grow so will interest in it's fan club, conventions and everything else. Yet, it appears little is done to really take any kind of advantage of all the opportunity. While the club and convention attendance might grow a little from years past, it could very well be NOTHING compared to what it could be if there was any kind of real active involvement on the organizers part to get people more interested. ....Then again, if they did that, they may get more people than they can actually handle. Something that could become a problem eventually whether they want it or not.
I actually wouldn't be offended at all, provided that the folks paying less for the loose set did so from eBay or a friend, or some other third party source. Actually, that needs explanation. I, personally, wouldn't be offended regardless. FP can do what they want. But if it's cheap enough to get the figures without attending, I'll do that instead of the thousands of dollars it would take to attend (this was actually what I did last year. Kind of, sort of, what I'm doing this year, too, although my not-attending this year is due to my scheduling problems as much as desire to spend less money. So I'm actually paying for someone else to attend, in exchange for the figures (I'll pay for shipping, which it should be noted non-attendee folks who buy from FP don't have to do). But if the market value of figures is less than the convention price, I'm fine with that. I just don't want to see FP do something that would hurt their long-term viability, which I honestly believe would be the case if they sold non-attendee packages for less than the attendee price.
You're right it's a cliche line. I couldn't think of another way to say you don't have buy the toys... oh wait that would have worked I think if they didn't offer a non-attendee package, people would complain that they can't afford Botcon, but they still want the toys. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. In the end FP needs these figures to be in demand and sought after. If Botcon exclusive figures dropped in value after the convention, no one would pay the convention price for them. Not many people would pay $280 for a set of figures if they can wait a week and get it on Ebay for $140. I give FP credit, they're keeping the 2005 set at the same price, despite the fact they haven't gotten rid of them in 3 years. I can imagine some upset people if they clearanced the set out, therefor decreasing the value of the set.
Actually, on that note, I see that the loose sets for 2005 are still on the store page, still requiring that you buy a boxed set to get one. It's hard to imagine that the loose sets will ever sell out, at this stage, even if/when the boxed sets eventually do. But, then, I guess we've seen that FP still has the option of using these as prizes for the casino night games, so I guess that, one way or another, they'll find some way of getting rid of them without going back on their promise to never, ever, sell these below the original price.
Well said. Basic economics. If you don't like the price, don't buy. If enough people feel that way then it should force the price to come down. Fact of the matter is, there are enough people who value these prodcuts at the current price. So either the market changes it's tone over time to a lower price or you get in line.
Don't you think a nice shiny box set complete with the convention pin and whatever other little special inserts would be more special to own than a bunch of loose bagged extras? That's my proposed trade off here. Keep the box set as attendee only therefore justifying to a greater degree selling the bagged sets at a lower price to non-attendees. As if all the other convention activities and goodies wouldn't be enough to satisfy. Don't tell me that box set wouldn't have a greater value on the collectors market. I wonder how many people here now arguing about the figures having value are the same people who condemn others for having concern in their collections values. I've heard many people say it over and over again that it shouldn't matter what the value of a figure is on the second hand market that you should only collect them if you want to, not because of what they're worth. Point being, there is a great deal of people in the fandom with that attitude that look down on people who do have an interest in their collections value. I wonder where they are now? There can be fair compromises made here. I don't know why it has to be that some people can't accept that, or at least entertain ideas and constructively talk about more positive ideas. There has to be more to the "well that's the way it is and that's all there is to it" mentality. That's a topic for a different discussion though.
Well no, I wouldn't really give a shit what people do at home. Just was saying what I'm fairly sure was an adequately-explained reason that was given by higher-ups ages ago. And unfortunately, the whole "experience is more worth the toys"/"they're making me spend so much on toys" discussion path is used to such unintentional double-standard that it's lost a lot of its value to me. Sad reality: The experience and the people are the best part of Botcon. But pricey toy exclusives tickle people's OCD and are very very likely the larger draw for a lot of the people that go. At the con, FP sells more stuff + gets money from dealers so dealers can sell more stuff. Having people actually there is key, so they probably don't want to encourage you to stay at home and order in (hence things like the free attendee bonus). For all the morality arguments and etcetera, FP needs to actually make profit to do these things (as evidenced by the unbelievable financial hardship that 3H went through practically every year they ran a Botcon). If the non-attendee package was palpably cheaper than the Primus package, I believe attendance and overall FP profits would drop enough to cause issues. It's very nice and romantic to believe the experience should be the draw, and it -is- the most valuable part of the convention to -me-, but to many other people it is not. And until I correct how the world works, my money isn't worth more than 2+ people's money. All that having been said, I don't have a hate on for anything either way here, I just want to add points to the discussion.
Wanted to add another point that's really it's own thing: In regards to making the Botcon toys available to non-attendees- This in itself is already something of a "gift of opportunity". I use quotes so people don't kneejerk and accuse me of talking down to them. Basically, Botcon toys are designed and meant for the convention. The box set is a draw, and the at-convention souvinirs (note that they use "souvinir" to describe them) are to get the dollars and interest of those already at the convention. As well as make non-attendees think that they might want to attend the next year to have at souvinirs themselves. While it would be nice for everyone to have access to all toys, the Botcon exclusives are by their very description primarily meant to be exclusive to a convention. Further to the point, there is an entirely new grouping of toys now: Club Exclusives. These are specifically not meant to be only had at a one-time event, but had by ordering through FP. Club Exclusives are (by description and the ones released so far) easier for "everyone" to get than Botcon Exclusives. Semantics suck, but are very applicable here.
As someone who doesn't live in the US and who worked out it would cost over $2000 for me to attend Botcon last year, I'm very happy to be given the opertunity to get the exclusives at a 10th of the cost. To those of us not living the US the non attending package is a boon.
Vangelus has a good point....I agree---to a point...but since I cannot afford to attend these awesome conventions then I fall into the "Don't make the toys "Exclusive" to the Botcons" statements. Sorry However if it ever does come to either Rhode Island or Long Island then my I will be going to that one so I can stop saying this statment.
No, not really. As someone who doesn't live in the US either and attended last year as well, I still think selling stuff on-line for non-attendees is the most basic form of scalping ever since the term was coined. They ARE setting prices pretty high from the start. You have no chance absolutely of paying less than 300 ever, because FP did not let the market speak for itself. That's the biggest backward excuse I've ever heard in my life.
But the prices aren't high. They're only around x3 the price of the same molds at retail. This is in line with most other non-store exclusives, including e-hobby. Also scalping to the purchasing of figures to cause shortage and then selling those figures on in order to make a profit. This way FP actually puts MORE figures out there, making them available to those who can't afford to get to the convention (like me). People complain that they can't afford the $300 to get the non attending package - well I can't afford the $2000 to attend the convention!
I agree 100% of what you wrote. From what I have read, most of the people complaining are the ones who can't afford the set, so out of jealousy they rip it. Someone calling it "Glam Rock" was probably an unnecessary comment and makes this person seem childish. One company can't make everyone happy and it's not good for business to make everyone happy. All FP can do is try and put a product out there for the fans. Bad business would be if the did make more sets at a cheaper price for non-attendees to accommodate everyone. Then they wouldn't be exclusives, right? No one would go to Botcon, right? If you're FP, why would you make more of an exclusive and at a cheaper price? Obviously not to draw more fans to the convention. In my opinion there should be no non-attendee sets like other conventions do and people should either go to botcon or get them after wards from third party retailers. (Here comes the "But I can't afford to go to Botcon" flame). I get it that some people can't afford to go to Botcon or other plans are made in which they can't attend. For these people, be gracious that FP actually has a non-attending set and either purchase it at it's given price or move along! I see no reason what so ever for people to sit here and bash FP or people who are purchasing this set.
Loose sets sold out already?! And still I haven't received their confirmation they got my pre-reg form. Hopefully they don't run out of Primus packages before my form gets there. Now I'm worried. Sorry .... but Guess what? No matter what they do ... many fans will be pissed. I go for the toys, both exclusives and from the dealer room. Yes. I'm going because I want to and because I can. I want to go because I want to buy toys. The thing is, the top amount of money FP can decrease from the Non-Attending Package's price is price of admision. That's $20 for both Saturday and Sunday. Otherwise, even attendees would get the Non-Attending Package and pay the walk-in price for admission. Do you think there will be less complaining if the set was $265 instead of $285? Did you copy-pasted that from some other poster who hasn't posted here in a while? I gotta say I do not agree ... I've seen the same type of complaints when the convention had other organizers. They produce the toys, they set the price. I don't get how that makes them scalpers. Was Hasbro scalping with SDCC Rodimus? Was Takara scalping with BT Black Convoy? Of course it was united fosterlager! Before Animated's split, the Movie's split, Fun Publications' split, Beast Machines' split, Beast Wars' split (that's a famous one) and the G2 cube split, I'm pretty sure we were all a happy family... What? You're telling me before G2 there were people complaining about Actionmasters, Pretenders and Micromasters and people who liked those? WTF? And there was the pro-Decepticon camp? Hear, hear! I haven't even paid for registration, and my Botcon expenses already go for $1011 for airfare and $300+ for Hotel ... and I still have to rent a car. I hope they do whatever allows them to keep producing toys in the future, whether that's completing characters fans think should be sold in retail but Hasbro has no intention of producing, or going for good Elseworlds' sets like this year. To tell you the truth, I secretly hope for a BC09 set made of Universe Bluestreak, Universe Smokescreen, Universe Red Alert, Universe Dragstrip and Universe Breakdown. -airfox
The other thing that gets me is the price for the Protoform (aka get-yer-butt-in-the-door) package - it costs 60% of the Primus package - and not only the toys are left out (including the "Con exclusive"), but also the dinner AND casino. I go to Dragon*Con in Atlanta - FOUR days of 400+ stars & many many panels - and the worse it cost - last minute/door - was $90/2007. And there are some tracks/areas that are 24-hour, related to the Con. For that cost, the Protoform, IMO - ought to include at least the "exclusive" toy (i.e., 07 Mirage) &/or the dinner & casino. Cuz frankly, if you aren't getting the toys, I can't see why you wouldn't just be added as a Mini-Con to someone, cuz at least then you get some food, fun & loot while the Protoformer is sitting in their room w/ their thumb up their butt bored. This way, while yes, you're "paying" upfront for the toys in a Primus package, if you choose NOT to have the toys, you can still FULLY experience the Con. This year, I learned my lesson - while I am NOT impressed w/ the toys, I'll pay the extra $100 over Protoform, and get at least that amount back popping them on eBay. Which, to my mind, just isn't right - as a fan who is attending such an event, I shouldn't have "How much can I make on this" on my mind - before the Con even happens. And drop it a bit (maybe like $40 or 50) for the non-attending. As it is, you miss out on the Con exclusive fig (rightfully so), dinner & fun, and the experience of meeting fellow fans & what stars they get. But if you can't make it to the Con, you aren't a totally SOL fan who wants to support his/her chosen fandom. So says a single mom who almost didn't make it last year or this year cuz I had problems getting child care - cuz I love both Cons, but BotCon is still new & exciting to me.
I'm not saying nobody had similar issues with price and what not, but nothing that I can recall that even comes close to this. Nobody is saying they can make everyone happy. I never said that. But I don't see why that has to be some half assed reason to just say "fuck it" and not even bother trying. Even if the figures were still out of my range at the time, anything that showed even the slighted bit of effort to try and reach more people would mean something.
I think it goes without saying that FP could make some improvements all around to bring the best possible fan experience, from doing away with faxing and setting up some online registration, to maybe offering lower packages for those wanting to attend but not purchase the toys and vice versa and showing you what you're paying for before you fork over your money, just my suggestions anyways, I still plan on attending however barring some change in the future.
