Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by eagc7, Oct 11, 2018.
Not everyone would agree with that.
Obviously they had plans but Chadwick Boseman died. Disney made their choice and that’s that. I feel like they should have delayed the movie and thought this through but they didn’t. I’m going to respect their choice because no matter what Disney is screwed. I still feel like they could recast T Challa in a different way. The Multiverse is happening. T Challa from the MCU world might die but another T Challa from a different universe can show up. They could do some Secret Wars 2015 event to do a whole lot of recasts.
If you think that would be the same, you must have also loved when some other version of Thanos who had never met the Avengers before showed up at the end of Endgame.
Dude it’s comic books. Shit like that happens all the time. If you are bothered by those things you’re into the wrong media.
That's fair, but saying "Feige already admitted he wasn't going to handle it appropriately," is nonsense, especially considering they're still in the pre-production stages.
The movies aren't the comics. I would have liked to have thought characters mattered more than that.
Who the Avengers are doesn’t matter to Thanos. He’s a galactic warlord who’s cut a massive swathe through the galaxy; he’s seen men and women of their ilk a million times before that. What matters is who Thanos is and represents to the Avengers. And he represents half a universe of dead souls.
This is where I dip out of this particular conversation.
No one ever said no one would ever play T'Challa again. No one. No one as far as I've seen is even asking for that.
Yeah, imagine that. If RDJ died suddenly, do you think they would have recast Tony Stark for the next movie? Do you think anyone would accept someone other than Robert Downey Jr. in that role right away? You think that would have gone down well? Several years later, sure. But right away? I don't think so.
I know all these Marvel movies with minority characters wants minority directors, but I loved what the Russo Brothers did with Tchalla and hated what Coogler did with the character, not to mention the awful special effects too.
How, in your view, did each director make the character different to you? TChalla seemed to be consistent enough to me.
In "several years" the MCU will still be going on. If they had waited even ten years to reboot Iron Man, as they've done with Batman, they'd be out of luck because the Universe hadn't concluded yet. So they'd either need to write a cheap way to bring Tony back to life (which, believe me, I would accept for T'Challa, if that was what it took), or just not have that character around again.
I don't particularly care that in 2041 there might be a Black Panther reboot starring someone new. The Black Panther series that exists right now is the one that set the world on fire in 2018, the one that was supposed to be a cornerstone of the MCU the way Iron Man and Captain America were in the beginning. The one that would have eventually led back to a new Avengers movie with the likes of Captain Marvel and Doctor Strange, which I simply can't see existing anymore. They're just erasing the character, and any legacy that could have been attached to it.
No one said they have to wait until 2041. Don't get hysterical.
CW Tchalla was a beast in look and hand to hand like I was scared for Bucky and Cap when confronting him. In BP, he not only got his ass kicked in his first solo movie but also the new suit just didn't do it for me like the CW suit.
Sadly this entire thread has devolved into everyone trying to get Matrix to see a different point of view. Since it will never happen someone wake me when the topic changes.
Another thing I don't think I've mentioned before in regards to MCU Black Panther was the baffling decision to make W'Kabi a villain, rather than T'Challa's loyal best friend. The movie features three prominent antagonists from Black Panther lore and fails to utilize basically all of them, it was entirely unnecessary for W'Kabi to also be made into villain. :/
If they decide in Wakanda Forever to have him be good again because he's sad about the loss of T'Challa (unless the talk of a recast is true) he's just gonna look like a shitty friend and traitor.
Ryan Coogler apparently early on wanted to use Kraven the Hunter as a villain, while a cool idea in theory he probably would've failed to do HIM justice if the final film is anything to go by.
But W'kabi wasn't a villain? Sure, he ended up siding with the antagonist for a period, but that hardly makes him villainous in and of itself. And that turn tied fairly neatly into the film's messaging and politics.
He sided with a murderous radical instead of sticking with his supposed friend and even when T'Challa came back after his almost death he still stuck with the lunatic and actively fought against his friend. He's either a spineless coward, easily manipulated or a traitor, none of these are good looks for him. Doesn't he also say he'd kill his wife for the sake of Wakanda when she was worried about him being radicalized by Erik? Yeah he's not villainous, that's a completely rational and not at all unhinged way of thinking. I can't wait for you to tell me how he was justified in saying that to the woman he apparently loves.
Plus I have no interest in talking about the films 'messaging and politics', I'm talking about the film as it stands on its own. If your response to this includes anything along the lines of "you can't separate those things from this movie" then you're admitting you probably shouldn't be involved in this discussion about a comic book movie because you'll inevitably throw it off topic.
Edit: Apparently I misremembered the scene with Okoye and W'Kabi and got their lines mixed up. My B, it definitely makes more sense that someone in the Dora Milaje would think in such a way, so I was mistaken in regards to that information.
W'Kabi being an antagonist was still a dumb decision when they already had three other villains to utilize, and the movie is still not very good / overrated as hell. I got one thing wrong, that doesn't make the rest of my criticisms somehow no longer valid.
I'm talking about the film's messaging and politics that were actually part of the damned story, not the offshoot stuff.
He wasn't fully behind Killmonger's agenda, but he sided with the general idealogy he espoused that Wakanda needed to get out and actually do things, rather than to just let injustices slide for the sake of neutrality or secrecy or whatever.
Good people can do wrong things for the right reasons, or lead astray in moments of selfishness.
The tragedy of Erik Kilmonger was that for as right as his cause could be, T’Challa was accurate in calling out all the hypocrisies and failings in Erik and his methods. But finally Erik snaps in the final battle and tearfully says “the world took everything from me” in response to T’Challa saying he’s going to literally burn the world in his crusade. And it gets spelled out, what we saw in Erik’s visit to the Ancestral Plane.
For all his bravado, his killing, his posturing, everything he’s ever worked for, he’s still just a scared, crying little boy who lost his father and was abandoned by family who could’ve taken him in, and was left to the mercies of the American foster care system. He never got the chance to heal, and only developed the hate that drove him to one day take revenge on Wakanda and anybody else in his path. And now that he has the power to do so, he just wants to inflict the same pain and suffering he endured on the rest of the world. For as important as family and legacy is to Wakanda and the royal family, their king selfishly left his own nephew to fend for himself and flew right in the face of it all, just to cover up his terrible mistake. And now a generation later, even after his death, he and his family and the world were about to pay for it.
Erik Kilmonger is who the creators of Captain America and the Winter Soldier thought Karli Morgantheau was.
Separate names with a comma.