Beast Machines dvds and revisiting old gripes...

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Psychrome86, Mar 4, 2006.

  1. Wreckie

    Wreckie Holder of the Discomatrix

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    I've got a degree in creative writing and you're wrong. So there. ;) 

    "Because I say so" is NEVER a valid argument, no matter how many letters you've got after your name.
     
  2. Nefud

    Nefud Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, "because I say so" is crap. But because we both know a little something more about how good stories are made we could probably talk about what we're both seeing and come up with some conclusions that are more valid than, "It was good!" or "It was bad!"

    If you're up for it, I'd be curious how you feel about the Rhinox issue. His *willingness* to turn to Megatron's side seemed very inconsistant with his "smell the flowers" attitude we saw in Beast Wars. I haven't watched Beast Wars in a year or so but I remember Rhinox being second only to Tigatron in how much he appreciated the organics of Earth. Do you see his character differently?
     
  3. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

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    Also treads the dangerous line of "you're welcome to have the opinion of liking it, but it's still bad". Surely folks don't have to dip into the pointless and sludgey ravine of pontificating into a cartoon discussion.

    And...I think that, way back, you kinda missed the point of Draven's post. He wasn't saying discussion = bad, he was saying that sniping at other posters over it was bad.

    Then again, this is serious business.
     
  4. Nefud

    Nefud Well-Known Member

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    how dare you accuse me of not knowing this is serious business prepare to be sued ON THE INTERNET :rock 

    I just wanted the discussion to get more specific (and not die out because no one should trample anyone's opinion), especially in terms of how bad this show was. :) 
     
  5. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    In your opinion. :) 
     
  6. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

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    Still...not seeing what this has to do with asking people to stay vaguely civil, but give it your all, Cosmo (as they say)!
     
  7. Darth Megatron

    Darth Megatron Don't tell Lucas!

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    Nobody gets anywhere in an argument or conversation in society when they fail to take into account the perspective(s) of another human being. (I have a degree in Sociology... ***waits for ohhs and awes to die down before continuing.***) That being said, Nefud, people like things, for what ever reason they want to. It is their perspective. Your perspective, of which we can not judge, is determined by your impossibly, ultra high expectations of a CARTOON SERIES. That being said, if you hated BM so much, what do you think of the newer series? Brilliant, the greatest thing ever written, if so, I would look on the back of your degree that you received to ensure it wasn't printed on a cracker jack box.
     
  8. Nefud

    Nefud Well-Known Member

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    Considering we rival each other in terms of sheer marketability, you should know I can't afford cable. :) 

    I think Sociology is fascinating, wish I could've studied it further than a 101 course.
     
  9. Cyberdramon

    Cyberdramon 地獄の番犬

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    Nightscream's value and worth in Beast Machines may be arguable but I'm glad he's now on Battlestar Galactica. Yay for Gaeda.

    Beast Machines did the best it could with what it got... which wasn't much. It seemed Hasbro went all non-violencey and wanted their heroes to portray pacifism and oneness and all that... It was kind of hokey. I rooted for Megatron.

    Things that I thought were cool... Jetstorm and then later Silverbolt and dealing with that darkness inside of him. That was cool. Rhinox telling Primal and co that they were wrong. Rhinox was never really evil... he still fought Megatron.

    I'm glad they didn't bring back Dinobot in some stupid way. Obsidian was badass. Noble/Savage was too. I never trusted the Oracle. Rattrap was changed a bit... not in a good way.

    There were way too many toys released for this show and not enough of them in the show. I think they could have "rescued" Thrust and Waspinator could have been reborn in that Buzzsaw toy. I know it was probably expensive to design models for these characters that could transform and do all those ranges of human facial expressions and what not... but they probably would have sold more toys.

    I guess, in the end, Beast Machines was just 'okay' especially following an act like Beast Wars which pleased so many kids as well as us fans. It changed the status quo. We were led to believe that everything we knew about Transformers was wrong. I think that rubbed people the wrong way.

    My biggest gripes with Beast Machines was Megatron wanted so badly to shed his Dragon form. How did he get his Dragon form? By combining his Spark with the greatest Decepticon leader *EVER*... and he just wants to throw it away? A little unbelievable. Also, at the very end of the series... I just didn't like his choice of forms for that final battle. Something cooler could have been done. I know, opinions opinions... but hey? We wouldn't be fanboys otherwise, right?
     
  10. shockwave2005

    shockwave2005 Well-Known Member

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    IMO....

    I've just finished watching the series, and I see nothing in the continuity that interferes with G1 or Beast Wars. All of the references they make to the previous shows (The Plasma Energy Chamber, Vector Sigma, The Key to Vector Sigma, the hate plague and all Beast Wars flashbacks) are completely in context and accurate. Nothing that happened in G1 or Beast Wars was ruined or "erased" by this show.

    SPOILERS AHEAD


    IMO...

    This show had some of the best character development EVER. I disagree when I hear things like "ZOMG they ruined (insert character here)". It's a little thing called NEW CHALLENGES. Some examples:

    Primal: Feels responsible for the loss of the entire planet of Cybertron and it's people, loses one of his own teammates (Rhinox) and almost becomes as extreme as Megatron.
    Cheetor: Blindly follows Primal until he is torn because of Primal's wavering judgement and has to confront Primal on this.
    Blackarachnia: Becomes consumed with bringing back Silverbolt, and then has to deal with who Silverbolt has become because of his ordeal.
    Rattrap: Gets a new body that is completely unknown to him, resulting in him overcompensating for what he has lost, which starts to make him a liability to the team.
    Silverbolt: Has to come to terms with all of the misdeeds that he committed as Jetstorm, and now fears getting too close to others.
    Rhinox: After being held in captivity by Megatron, he quite possibly lost a bit of his sanity because of Megatron's toying with his spark.

    END SPOILERS

    IMO...

    Overall, I thought Beast Machines was an excellent show. I don't have an English lit degree or anything :D  , but I still think it was an excellently written show.

    And whoever mentioned that the story was ripped from "The Matrix" films, I can see how that would be valid as far as some of the stylistic visuals and the theme...but the other two movies came out long after the Beast Machines series had ended. So technically, you could say that the Wachowski brothers lifted elements of their story from Beast Machines. However, I'm not going to say that considering that I really don't know how long The Matrix was a comic series before the films, and I don't think either one ripped the other off.

    As far as the "non violence" that people keep taking about...they still had weapons. They still shot at each other. Things still blew up. Characters got hurt and died.

    Sounds fairly violent to me.
     
  11. Quantum

    Quantum Oh good

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    I'm not sure I understand how having a degree in English Literature makes you more *qualified* to judge a television show than anyone else.
     
  12. Darth Megatron

    Darth Megatron Don't tell Lucas!

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    Worthless degree team unite! At any rate, I just got a job down at the Sociology factory. :thumbs2: 

    To bring some dept back to this thread, BM was alright for me. It re-kindled a past love for Transformers (ewww...) and forever changed what I would collect in the future. I passed on BW (At the time so fully engulfed in Star Wars, MacFarlane etc. to notice how good it was), but was pleasantly surprised with BM. Cheetor is still one of favorite characters, Jetstorm was a great villain (and toy incidentally, all versions) and like others have mentioned, it was nice to see that the good guys didn't always win. My only problems were that it didn't get the ending it deserved and I'm not a fan of the ranks of Vehicon drones. I liked the depth of the Predicons in that they had there own personalities that could be explored; not just a mindless robot for a Maximals to fight. Kind of like the seekers and sweeps, no personality, just red shirts to the slaughter.
     
  13. shockwave2005

    shockwave2005 Well-Known Member

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    But that was what Megatron wanted: One mind. Perfect Harmony. When he created his Vehicon generals it was only out of desperation.
     
  14. Darth Megatron

    Darth Megatron Don't tell Lucas!

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    Yeah, I understand why Megs did it, I just don't like how Hasbro did it, that being said, the generals did have a lot of characterization and depth.

    Also, why is everybody treating Rattrap like some cripple with this huge handicap. Sure he had wheels for feet, but I don't think Hasbro designers did this to relate to people in wheel chairs. I would assume (uh-oh) that they combined designs from the transmeatel vehicle mode and robot mode. He was part vehicle, part rat in BW and in BM part Vehicle, part robot. All things being said, It was as much of a hindrance on him as Jetstorms inability to ‘walk on the ground’.
     
  15. shockwave2005

    shockwave2005 Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely. I don't know why people had such a problem with it. Personally it wasn't one of my favorite BM designs, but I don't think it deserved the hate it got.
     
  16. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    The toy version had legs anyway, so if people didn't like Rattrap's wheeled form they didn't have to put up with it.
    Personally I think it added something to the show; Rattrap's ordeals, from being unable to transform, to being unarmed in both modes, to being desperate enough to prove his worth to his comrades that he would agree to protect his enemy for a night in order to gain weapons, made him one of the most interesting characters to watch in the whole series.
     
  17. shockwave2005

    shockwave2005 Well-Known Member

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    Most surely agreed.
     
  18. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

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    Bigtime hellyeah, here. It also woulda made the entire inclusion of Waspy a little more bearable for me, as I kinda felt his whole happy ending from BW was tossed for the sake of two joke scenes. >.<
     
  19. Foster

    Foster Veteran

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    I know it was done to try something different, but I dislike TFs with only melee weapons. Handheld or mounted guns seem like a requirement for a race at war. Swords are fine, like Cheetor's, but I think the toys suffered playability-wise as a result. Deluxe Primal's chest aura energy seemed like the lamest leader weaponry TFs have ever had.

    ...then again, "I'll attack you with my very SOUL" could have had a nice ring to it!
     
  20. Andersonh1

    Andersonh1 Man, I've been here a LONG time Veteran

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    I've done the same thing to myself! I just got the DVD set, and I was watching the first appearance of the big giant head for the first time since I've been making the comics, and couldn't help yelling "Chip!!" :lol