Bay's Action with a Good Story is a Good Idea

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by xDOTMShockwave, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. xDOTMShockwave

    xDOTMShockwave Banned

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    Not watching someone else’s review that gives THEIR opinion on everything. I have my own opinions, And lack of continuity literally doesn’t mean that they “didn’t try” wtf? Maybe they “didn’t try” hard enough to connect each film together properly but that isn’t a strong enough point for saying that they didn’t try with the movies in general at all.
     
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  2. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Crazy like the Fox

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    Dude, Bay and Lorenzo absolutely admitted that they didn't give a damn. That's how we know TLK rendered the Writer's Room entirely pointless - those two fully confessed to just picking the things they liked the most and taped a frankenstien script together that makes no sense.
     
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  3. xDOTMShockwave

    xDOTMShockwave Banned

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    What are you talking about? I’m saying they at least tried with the first 3 movies. I’m well aware Bay was just cashing in on a pay check in TLK. He tried coming up with an argument that is incredibly flawed imo- that Bay didn’t care about any of the movies he directed
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  4. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Crazy like the Fox

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  5. ErbFan28

    ErbFan28 Well-Known Member

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    The thing for me is, I think Bay has a really cool color palette and I love his design aesthetics/preference for the robots. His camera work and lighting inspire awe in a Spielbergian way. However, I don’t think his action scenes are really all that interesting or exciting. Much of the time, it’s hard to even make out what’s going on. If he had someone else storyboard the action scenes, his films would be incredible on a visual level.
     
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  6. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    Bay didn’t even want to direct the first film, seeing it as a mere “toy film”.
     
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  7. Appleseed

    Appleseed Well-Known Member

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    Not all of the films..the 1st Transformers, ROTF opening and forest action scenes are the best in all Transformers movie..DOTM, AOE and TLK all action were lazy produced by Bay, they not focus on simple story and great action, most of it focus of unnecessary human action/destruction, protoform robots and human historical. If the first TF movie you also dislike, i really don't know what you actually like, better make your own TF movie that nobody care about.
     
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  8. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    That’s a bad argument
     
  9. Spartan Prime

    Spartan Prime is an apathetic douchebag

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    Yeah. This is the weakest counterargument you can make to anybody. Try again.
     
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  10. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't just them. Even the writers working on the first movies straight out said they were putting in stuff at random that they thought was 'cool' (Until then, I'd actually been thinking it was just Bay). They weren't even bothered about stuff like continuity issues or character development. (and yeah, it showed). Ultimately, their attitude was 'it's only a movie'. Their words.

    I read an interview years ago (I don't seem to able to find it now) and it was infuriating the way their attitude was that people who expected a movie about giant alien (generally hostile alien - that was their attitude to the Transformers. Even the legendary Allspark seemed to do little but bring evil robots to life - or kill them) robots to have a good story were, frankly, expecting too much.

    I found it kind of maddening. I was a Tolkien fan as a child, and somehow they managed to make three good Lord of the Rings movies, which, at one time, I thought was impossible. The MCU took off, another childhood dream come to life. There was Star Wars and the DC movies, not perfect, but the writers did try.

    And then there was Transformers where they smugly admitted they didn't particularly care about the actual story or characters ('That's not why people come to watch these movies'). I can't remember anyone else who worked on a movie saying that. Yes, you do get 'Maybe that was mistake' or 'That didn't turn out as well as we hoped'.

    But you don't usually get a blatant 'Nah, we really didn't give a f***. People are gonna come and watch it, anyway'.


    The Last Knight disaster was a blessing in disguise for Travis Knight. It resulted in the Paramount big boys backing away from Bumblebee and letting Travis Knight do his thing. (And when Lorenzo expressed his 'concerns' about Knight's approach to the movie, I took that as a positive sign :) ).

    I am a little worried about the next film. With Lorenzo promising more 'Bayhem' in the next one (I swear, Paramount sometimes remind me of the dinosaurs, when it comes to the TF movies. :( ), we may be in for more of the same old same old from before. Even if Knight is involved, the 'big boys' may have regained enough courage to add their own 'special touches' and 'improvements'.
     
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  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Crazy like the Fox

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    I honestly doubt it, given that Dark Fate pretty much confirmed that trying to severely deviate from the core basics of a franchise i going to backfire in the end.
     
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  12. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave The Fox

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    For me Bay's action is hit-or-miss. Some of the action (especially in the earlier movies) is a bit too bombastic and shaky-cam for my taste. And a lot of it is just robots hitting each other and smashing together. I prefer a bit more cleverness and variation in the choreography. You can have a lot more fun with the concept of giant robots. But then you also get stuff like the Optimus/Bumblebee fight in TLK, which (despite it's shortness) was really well-executed and fun to watch. I thought the Bumblebee movie did a fantastic job finding a balance between Bay's bombastic style (which you need a bit of) and the more clever fight choreography of something like a Marvel or Star Wars movie. That's what I really want to see more of.

    I do really like Bay's visuals though. Something about his movies just look expensive. I don't know if it's the color grading, the makeup, the lighting, the frequent "hero shots", or some combination of all of those. He just knows how to make the world look really cool. I'd love to see his visual style with a really good script, and a choreographer who can reign in the action just a bit.
     
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  13. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Ebay:
    Yeah, I love his visuals. And for me, visuals are more important than writing, continuity, and story. Maybe that's why I love these movies more than most Transformer fans on here.
     
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  14. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    o_O 
    I need some time to let that sink in please.
     
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  15. Dinobot Snarl

    Dinobot Snarl Well-Known Member

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    Bumble Bee had action, it's like people didn't see it or something. No one's asking for a Transformers Movie without action. We just want plot and an adherence to transformers universe lore
     
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  16. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Crazy like the Fox

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    So a movie could have absolutely dogshit everything but otherwise look pretty and you would say that film is good? Such that as long as what you are seeing is pretty enough, it could have no contextual reason to be happening and be passable?
     
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  17. Sablebot

    Sablebot Autobot Media Scientist

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    True indeed! And they tried to push the writer's room thing as if it was: A)something new-which is f$#@&%$ comical (to say the least), since writer's rooms have existed in hollywood films for decades-literally; B)something that would, by its very nature of being a writer's room, automatically mean a massive improvement of the first 4 films-and we saw the aftermath of that-and the stench is still fresh. . .
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  18. TheSoundwave

    TheSoundwave The Fox

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    I totally get where you're coming from. I'd say writing and story are a bit more important for me, but I really think visual style is undervalued. If a movie is ugly to look at, it really takes points off for me, and could make me flat out dislike it. For instance, I can't stand Jason Borne 2. Not because the story was bad, but because I can't stand to watch that much shaky-cam. On the other hand, something like The Force Awakens, (which has a pretty generic story and writing) is pretty watchable because of it's exciting visual style.
     
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  19. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    I said "for me". I don't appreciate having my quote cut short like that with a goofy smilie and short statement to denigrate my opinion. We can enjoy different things in movies without being rude.

    Thank you. We slightly differ in what aspects of movies are most important to us but you were very polite and expressed what capacity you agreed with me.
    I can also understand how others do value story, etc. I remember a CGI Final Fantasy movie that came out years ago and looked stunning for the time. I thought I'd really enjoy it but ended up a bit let down because I didn't care for the plot. I don't know the exact algorithm, but a lot of times I can overlook plot holes, etc, if I enjoy the visuals and effects.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2019
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  20. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    There's a saying, mate.

    Style over substance.

    Remember that, kid, remember that