Bay formers 4= insult to a great name

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by rusty26, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. Scorpio

    Scorpio Well-Known Member

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    He changed the turtles into aliens, made casey and april being a chavy security gaurd/hockey player and a slutty reporter respectively. In the leak script (written during bay's supervision) the Turtles were given random names by Casey. Also, the turtles came from a planet of Turtles where they were foretold to save the universe from an evil emperor Kangg who decided to kill their family and hire an alien being named 'shradder' to help him... oh and Splinter was from a planet of Rat warriors and the worse fighter of the team - experiencing forms of dementia during the script leak - confirmed real by the studio. At this point Bay openly mocked fans by saying the script hit the 'shredder' ages ago. Causing a huge backlash against Bay - who believed the concept of teenage mutant ninja turtles stupid and was going to reboot them as alien beings fighting a war and piloting a turtle spaceship... oh... and Casey is the one who named the Turtles - by reading names from a assignment he was meant to do which he chucked in the garbage.

    ^ Who needs fan over-reaction when you have Michael Bay destroying everything good about your childhood.
     
  2. jru42287

    jru42287 Ass Möde is a way of life.

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    I...I think we're missing eachother's points here. Yeah, I get that gross earnings don't determine a good movie by any means. The highest grossing movie of all time when adjusted for inflation is Gone with the Wind. Dark of the Moon winds up 125 notches down on that same list, below the two other movies.

    Honestly, I'm not sure what your argument is. I think it's cute that you're kind of berating me for not reading your above post, yet you clearly haven't read mine, where I in no way agree that DotM is a great film by any means. If anything, I wasn't disagreeing with your point from before, I was adding to it. Ticket sales in no way reflect good movie-making, at least not in this day and age. But you also can't slap "economics" on it and and call it a day either. There's a lot more to it.


    Also, I really hope you were exaggerating your ticket prices. If any of y'all are actually paying $15 to see a movie, I feel for you. That's 50% more than I just paid to see Skyfall three hours ago.
     
  3. boxorak

    boxorak Lacking Shelf Space

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    You know what, I have no counter-argument for that. I'm done. You and all of the haters win. Michael Bay is the new reincarnation of Nyarlyathotep, and he deserves whatever dark torments await him in the next world. That's what you want me to say, is that right? Is that what you want all of us to say?

    But you know what? Even if every TF fan in the world agrees with that statement, it will do absolutely nothing to affect Bay's movie making. Why? Because people will still see his movies regardless, even the TF fans. Maybe they go to make fun of it, maybe they go in the hopes that Bay doesn't screw up again, but the fact is that they'll go see it anyway. And if they still go see it, the movies will still make money, and Bay will continue to violate childhoods. And what does bitching about it do? ABSO-F*CKING-LUTELY NOTHING. It justs restarts old arguments and wastes everyone's time.

    If you're really so upset about Bay taking advantage of old franchises just to fund his cocaine addiction, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Become a director, start a petition, take matters into your own hands and off the dude, do SOMETHING other than bitch about it online. Otherwise, just shut up, accept it like an adult, and move on with your life, because the damn films don't do anything to affect any part of your life (except maybe your wallet).

    And that's what I'm going to do; shut up and move on with my life. I am wasting my time in this thread, but no longer. You can have your cyclical arguments, I'm out of here.

    tl;dr I rage quit this thread. Later, jerks. :D 
     
  4. ArceeMe

    ArceeMe =^.^=

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    you know there is a troll online when....

    Seriously? Get over yourself. Bay makes these movies because its a LOVED franchise. He (along with everyone else) KNOWS ppl will come see the movies, and either u will like them, or not, it doesn't matter in the end because he still has your what? Opinion? nope! your gf/bf? nope! wrong again! its called MONEY. This is your OPINION, and its OK to share but there is a difference between "sharing"(which I hope you learned at an early age) and ranting so much crap people will realize you have mom and daddy bot issues. Bay is also far from "afraid" of anything. Just look at the economy and think if you were BAY, and made 3 movies with the HELP of one of THE greatest names in film history, wouldnt YOU want to continue as well?

    I'm so SICK of ppl bashing Bay about the movies. Fact is, YOU didnt do these movies, and YOU didnt get all the $ from them either to make MORE TF movies. so just stop prolonging all this crap and move on. We ALL know your going to the new movie anyway, so get over yourself .
     
  5. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Throw in that people forget just how much advertising plays into the box office take for movies. Take a poorly advertised Micheal Bay like The Island with a domestic take of $35 million compared to highly advertised films like Transformers with a domestic take of $319 million or Armageddon with a domestic take of $201 million.

    If it was a case of everyone loves Micheal Bay movies then it does seem like The Island should have been a bigger box office draw.

    I agree that box office really can't tell you anything about the quality of a film when factors like release dates or marketing are more important to the box office than how much did people enjoy the movie.

    Ha ha, do we even have numbers on how many girlfriends or wives got dragged to the Transformers movies as part of a boyfriend's revenge for getting dragged to the Twilight films?
     
  6. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    If I may simply address this point of yours, Scorpio... :) 

    1.) What proof is there that "Bay cut the budget" of DotM? It had a lower budget. That doesn't mean Bay - or anyone - "cut it". If they established a $195 million budget right off the bat for DotM, then they didn't cut it. You can't cut something that's established in the first place. It had a lower budget than RotF, so...? Iron Man 2's budget was less than Iron Man. The Harry Potter films' budgets vary greatly, some sequels' budgets are more, and some are less. Pirates 4's budget was lower than Pirates 3. The first LOTR film, The Fellowship of the Ring, had a larger budget than both Return of the King and The Two Towers. Raimi's Spider-Man films' budgets increased with each movie. The Jurassic Park films' budgets increased as they went along, yet their worldwide grosses decreases as the films progressed. There is no set rule or gauge about budgets. A lower budget doesn't necessarily mean the execs losing faith. A bigger budget doesn't necessarily mean they expect it to make oodles more than the previous movie. Budgets are tricksy things, Hobbitses.
    2.) And really, $200 million for RotF vs. $195 million for DotM? Does that, what, 4% cut scream "after the abysmal failure of RotF I don't want to waste as much money on a third one" to you? Bay is one of the most efficient (in terms of business-related monetary and time restraints) filmmakers in Hollywood. You know why Bay keeps getting gigs? It ain't for the quality of his movies, that's for sure. It's because he puts asses in seats. He is the director you go to when you want a movie filmed on time and under-budget. Biggest bang for you buck? Go to Bay. There's a far greater chance that he said "Hey, I can give you a bigger movie, but with a 4% decrease on RotF's budget. That means more money for you and more money for me and more money for the hundreds of people involved!"
    3.) And, if I may quote myself from one of the first TF4-related threads...

     
  7. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    His stamp is over it all so much it's part of why it's referred to as BayFormers. Obviously I can't make any factual claims, but I reckon if someone else with a smaller ego had been directing then the movies might've been given normal regular nicknames like LiveFormers or RealFormers or MovieFormers instead.

    I don't go to messageboards for Marvel stuff but I'm going to assume there probably isn't much mention of anything such as 'Whe-vengers' even though everyone knows Whedon helmed the Avengers movie. And even if there was that nickname it probably wouldn't have the generally negative tone 'BayFormers' has when used.

    Bay has gotten his fingers so deep into the live-action TF movie franchise that it's always going to smell a bit of whatever's under his fingernails, even if someone else took over directing. The only way the live-action TF franchise would ever shake off the BayFormers tag is with a complete reboot under a new director with a new style.
     
  8. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Movie directors don't get to set the budget for movies. When a film is pitched to a studio they do an estimate of what the budget would be for the type of film so the studio can figure what their investment will be and if they are likely to get back more than their investment in the film.

    If a film goes over budget the director can go and ask for more money to finish the film because most studios rather spend $1 or $2 million more to have something to release than to have nothing for the investment.

    When it comes to budgets Micheal Bay is known for having a very good track record for coming in at or below budget.
     
  9. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    Exactly. There's virtually nothing to state that Bay - or anyone - "cut the budget". It was (barely) lower than RotF's, and given my numerous examples above, that's no big deal.
     
  10. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I completely agree. It seems to be nothing else but when they crunched the numbers for what the fourth film will cost the estimated budget came in lower than the budget they had estimated for Dark of the Moon.
     
  11. Scorpio

    Scorpio Well-Known Member

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    I wasnt actually referring to the smaller amount of money spent meaning that the plot or anything would improve. Simply the fact that if they have only allocated $165m - only 15m more than the 2007 film - that it will have a bad effect on the film. It also means the film is less likely to feature large attack sequences (or if there is one it will be compressed to the length and CGI complexity of about the same as Transformers (2007)

    My main point is if the studio have set the budget low this is for one or both of these 'two reasons' and these reasons only (considering the budget has been set before Bay has found cast members - noting here that the budget was set a while back while Mark Wahlberg was confirmed to star a few weeks ago - with Bay stating he was only 'now' talking with him about Transformers 4);

    • They believe fans will accept a lower budget movie and will make more money by dropping the budget
    • They believe that the film is going to bomb and reduce the budget in order to be ready for the failure of the film

    May i also point out in the only near examples of this; Pirates of the Carribean 4 and Iron Man 2 - both films with their previous films earning a lot more than predicted. They were both 'bad' films with much weaker plots than their prequels focussing more on practical effects than CGI.

    Most of the problems with money between ROTF and DOTM were the locations, this featured intently on the budget and thus meant lots of silly plots such as 'lets go pyramids', let's go on a boat in the sea', 'lets get permission to film on a pyramid to add a balls joke' and so on. Not to mention the actors who demanded more after Transformers - Bay has been on record slandering Megan Fox and essentially comparing her to a ***** given that she was motivated by money and demanded more after the first film.

    A 5 million drop is not that much, essentially when you compare the plot of Transformers; DOTM with ROTF. In ROTF they go from place to place while in DOTM they spent about 95% of the film in Chicago or other cities and locations that are very easy to film in - for example most scenes in DOTM the first half of the film are shot in offices, homes, buses and near or inside warehouses.
     
  12. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    Yeah, I'm not saying that it means the movie will be better quality or anything either, I'm merely pointing out the fact that there's dozens of things that affect the budget, and that is isn't necessarily a sign of Paramount or anyone losing faith. By that logic, Paramount was banking on Iron Man 2 bombing because of its lower budget than Iron Man, or that New Line had lost faith in Peter Jackson and thus didn't want Return of the King's budget to exceed the previous two films. And we can all see how a lower budget affected the action and spectacle (hint: it didn't). A lower budget =/= guaranteed negative affects on films. If we want to make a correlation of "budget = spectacle", then TF4 is still on route to be a large action-oriented film, even if it isn't quite as balls-out as RotF or DotM, it'll still be bigger than Transformers. But that's all assuming that "budget = spectacle", which isn't the case at all. So we're back to square one, meaning we have absolutely no concrete proof as to why they wanted a lower budget for TF4 than the previous two.

    Except for the fact that it doesn't mean necessarily mean that. At all. See my above examples. I don't know about you, but the constantly fluctuating budgets of the Harry Potter films didn't seem to have any quantifiable bearing on the amount of action sequences. Or for LOTR. Or for Pirates.

    And again, I repeat, those aren't the only reasons why a budget is lowered.

    Yes and no. Both sequels had larger visual effects shot counts and still had plenty of CGI and practical effects. Which relates back to my other point, a lower budget doesn't necessarily have a negative affect on the effects work in it.

    Exactly, filming locations can have a big affect on budget. So based on what we know for sure about TF4's filming (read: not much), that's where some of that "missing budget" might've come from.

    And as you said yourself, $5 million is not that much at all (relatively speaking), so why act like the budget was somehow slashed by a large percent because they lost faith after RotF?
     
  13. guncannon109

    guncannon109 Just passing through

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    Why do people view the cartoons are absolute perfection? The closest the Franchise has gotten in terms of cartoons was Prime, and even that has a ton of things that annoy the crap out of me. Transformers is a marketing vehicle first and foremost, then it's a bunch of episodic vignettes with scenes that might have a big effect on the audience upon first glance, but then I will most likely lose it once you take a step back and look at the whole picture. In short, TAKE YOUR NOSTALGIA GOGGLES OFF AND LET YOUR BRAIN BREATHE!
     
  14. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    I agree to an extent with your post (Transformers as a whole is not some holy grail piece of infallible literature like some claim it is), but to be fair, Beast Wars and Animated have spoiled us. :lol  When you get perfection - or near perfection - such as those, you end up wanting more. Throw in some awesome comics too and the thirst for great quality Transformers increases. We've seen it, we've seen the potential for Transformers to be great. But then you consider that the "great" portion of Transformers constitutes all of 1/10 of the franchise... We've glimpsed the heavens briefly, and we want more.
     
  15. Soundpulse

    Soundpulse Well-Known Member

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    This thread is hilarious.
     
  16. starscream 55

    starscream 55 Well-Known Member

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    its a shame really, the writers really had a great idea bringing back transformers, they did everything right apart from bringing bay in who turned it into more of a michael bay film instead of a transformers film
     
  17. WheelWave140

    WheelWave140 Hate's not cool, dudes!

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    Why is this still open? Some people hate Bayformers, it's an opinion, everybody has opinions. Forums are for expressing opinions, not berating someone for thinking otherwise.
     
  18. Scorpio

    Scorpio Well-Known Member

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    My qoute is blank so you can just know this is meant to be a reply, qoute layouts on this site need work :eek:  Instead your qoutes will refered to as numbers based on the layout of your post :3

    1. Agreed that budget is not entirely reflectant on the quality of film however considering they have not signed on many actors yet or started the script this still worries me - especially if this film succeeds and does as well as DOTM then the budget could stay 'slashed for any future movies.
    2. Taking 'Harry potter' into example - though this is evident from POTC also.
    3. The 'fluctuating' budget you mention only dropped for 'Harry potter and the chamber of secrets' and only increased or stayed the same for later films. Budget is not worrying if it increases with each passing film - that just shows that they are likely spending more of the money the film earnt on the next in the series.

      As for POTC this followed the same 'increasing money' idea up until the fourth film where they decided to drop the amount yet this film is also reported to cost somewhere between the cost of the 1st and 2nd film. Personally i felt that both POTC Dead man's chest and POTC on strangers tides were both just wasting time. POTC 2 just established the third and they spent so long travelling on a boat doing nothing that it became boring this also happens during their time on the island, solely added to run out the clock. POTC 4 simply furthers this by adding a pointless character who can be used to turn to for his interactions with the mermaid to distract people from the lack of CGI they are trying to avoid using - to cut the expense
    4. I noticed you're reasons about the budget however personally i felt they could be condensed into those two considering the studio is the people who choose the budget.
      (Apologise if this is the wrong list, multiple qoutes i'm having to read)
      The 'fewer new robots' does not count in this due to the film being confirmed and the budget set without the script being complete - all statements by Bay have stated the script is still being worked on.
      A shorter runtime may effect the budget however i personally doubt the people that chooses the budget know the runtime of the film when the script and film is not completed yet.
      I would agree on this however, once again the script is not complete and as we can see from recent news Bay is literally going everywhere after being invited by countries to try to win his favour to film TF4 there - as such i doubt TF4 will not be globe trotting.
      The smaller cast once again links to the script - plus hiring new cast actually might amp up the budget a bit as they may require more money than the previous cast.
      (The other two are my condensed points)
    5. Pirates of the carribean 4 spent about 70% of the plot doing practical effects or simply being on a boat or on an island. The only CGI intensive scenes were the 'aqua de vida' scene and the mermaids. The Mermaids being added solely to fill out the plot and provide a love interest for the time waster character i mentioned earlier.

      Iron man 2 meanwhile had more CGI however the practical effect quality actually dropped and more than half the movie was spent with Tony or Iron man just talking. For example; Tony spends more than 30mins actually interacting with Nick Fury, Agent Coulson, Natasha Romanov and the members of the party. They even introduced a courtroom scene which essentially was only done to emphasise the point of the first film which is that Tony Stark is Iron man.
    6. My point about locations i have brought up earlier in this - simply they have no confirmed locations and Bay is essentially 'dicking around' at the moment enjoying the pleasure of just getting offered to film in places or visit them.

      Onto ROTF and DOTM. I am not 100% sure why you believe i have been talking about the budget between those two film however i shall go into detail of it now.

      Despite ROTF failing script wise, they somehow managed to get DOTM to have a similar budget... personally i believe this is due to Bay convincing them to give him a set budget for the second and third film allowing him to film back-to-back if he wished.
     
  19. Transfotaku

    Transfotaku Transformer Otaku

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    Everyone has opinions, yes, but everyone has a butthole and those all stink too.

    Also:
    Some opinions are plain wrong.
    Some opinions are completely misinfirmed.
    Some opinions come from stereotypes.
    Some opinions are expressed woefully, well, bad. Crappy.


    You express an opinion, fine. You express an opinion stupidly, people will jump on you. You express an opinion that the rest of the place doesn't agree with, people will jump on you. You express your opinion in a fandom, people will jump on you.

    Don't want people to jump on you? Don't express an opinion.
     
  20. roccondil5

    roccondil5 sculptor

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    As I read your points, I can't help but think you believe (wrongly) that amout of CGI= quality of the movie and also that only CGI costs a lot. As far as we know, a smaller budget could mean actually having more CGI, and less actual live action and pratical effects, which cost as much as CGI...