Batman Movies

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by SaberPrime, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Primal1987

    Primal1987 Well-Known Member

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    The Nolan films have been more or less rooted in reality, so introducing the concept of immortality would have been off the wall, and kinda dumb. Ra's is dead, and Bruce was only having a dream, as evidenced by Ra's fading out of existence, and Bruce waking up soon after. And when Bruce was talking about Bane being his kid, Ra's would have said "Bane isn't my son, you idiot." :lol 
     
  2. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP My personal sense of scale

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    Responsible, yes, but that's not the point. Batman's probably responsible for a number of criminal deaths, but the point is he will not execute anyone. He won't kill an opponent like the league would. He won't execute anyone and he won't sly a person, but like he said, he doesn't have to save them.

    Except no, not even close.

    Ra's appeared as a halucination, and his line about immortality was about his legacy carrying on. He wasn't actually there, man. I'm not sure how you got that.
     
  3. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Veteran

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    lol, yeah. I mean you
    see him vanish. If we were meant to think he might be alive/immortal, he'd just walk away, or after cutting to a close-up of Bruce, he'd just be gone.

    He may be immortal in the comics, but as far as I know, he was never an apparition with the ability to appear and disappear right in front of you. Even Batman waits for people to look away before he pulls his "ninja vanish!" trick.
     
  4. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    Oh joy we get to have an entire argument hidden in spoiler tags. lol

    Rooted in reality? So that's why a man can have half his body covered in 3rd degree burns and live to tell about it? Two-Face looked realistic in terms of looking like he was actually burned however in real life he'd never actually have survived the fire. His eye shouldn't even be able to stay in that side of his head sense there's nothing actually holding it there. He's got holes in his flesh that he should have bleed to death from.

    Then there's Bane who is wearing a mask that constantly pumps a gas that doesn't exist to keep him from feeling pain and there isn't even a pumping mechanism in that mask to even make that realistically possible. The actual Bane with the tube feeding him Venom that he has to refill is actually more realistic. Really all they had to do was keep Bane exactly the same but instead of Venom call it Steroids because that's basically all Venom is.

    Oh and Scarecrow's fear gas doesn't actually exist.

    Talia being able to climb out of that hole as a child when so many people have died trying. Though considering they had the rope there it's actually easier than they made it sound. Speaking of that hole, how the hell do they even have working electricity down there? Something had to be powering that TV.

    Bruce's quick recovery and some how returning to Gotham City was kind of out of the left field.

    So Ra's being Immortal is not that far out there.

    Because Ra's is in fact immortal in the source material. Bruce didn't just wake up from a dream, it looked as if he went to sleep as Ra's faded away. He was going in and out of consciousness multiple times before and after Ra's showed up. If Ra's line was a metaphor and not literal why would he say it in response to Bruce saying "How can you be here? I saw you die." In response to a direct question about his being alive a line about immortality being a metaphor to his legacy doesn't make any sense but as a literal statement, it makes perfect sense.

    You're so busy assuming that Ra's being alive was a complete hallucination, did you ever consider that his vanishing act might be the only hallucination. I remember when I use to drink I thought I saw someone appear and then vanish like that and it was someone I know for a fact is alive but have never been too sure if they were really there or not because I was REALLY drunk.
     
  5. Primal1987

    Primal1987 Well-Known Member

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    Key words being "More or less", meaning "We'll try...but we aren't going to 100% ignore that this is a comic book movie." :wink: 

    Besides
    TDKR is the end of the trilogy, do you really think they are just going to be like "oh hey, Ra's is still alive LOL" and completely ignore it forever? Would he have quit being Batman at the end, knowing that the man who trained him and tried to destroy Gotham, is still alive? Once Bruce got back to Gotham, he would have flat out said "Hey! Ra's is back! We have to go back to wherever I came from, and stop him!". Talia's whole goal of destroying Gotham was brought upon because of her Father's death. Wouldn't Bruce have told her "I saw him in prison. The hell are you talking about?" What was seen in the prison was a dream, nothing more.
     
  6. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Veteran

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    SaberPrime, I'll give you this; You never quit. That's an endearing trait...to some. :) 

    Ok, I've only seen the movie once, so it's possible I could be mistaken, but if
    Ra's fades away as Bruce loses consciousness, don't you think that's a visual cue to the audience that it's a hallucination? I mean, the real trick would be for Ra's to still be standing there while Bruce is out cold. Then I'd be like, "Holy shit! Ra's is Alive!"
     
  7. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    Well my point being that don't you think it's kinda odd to call one unrealistic element in a movie dumb out of so many others? Especially when that one element is the only one that is actually pulled directly from the source material. And I don't think I need spoiler tags on this sense I haven't actually said what the hell I'm talking about. You know what it is.

    I do need spoiler tags on this though.
    They introduced a new Batman in the John Blake character just to completely ignore it forever how is that any different? Bruce doesn't actually know that Ra's is still alive. Like I said, he was going in and out so of consciousness so he probably assumed it was a hallucination sense he "knows" he saw Ra's die. Like I said before, I thought I saw the same thing while drunk one knight but the person I saw is in fact alive so I haven't got a clue if she was really there or not. She had left before we started drinking but she did say she was coming back later that night. I passed out... multiple times... and as far as I know she never came back but the door was unlocked so she could have. It's realistically possible Bruce actually saw Ra's and in his state at the time doesn't even know it. Talia has always worked to help her father achieve his goals, it wouldn't take his death to force her to do that.

    Yes and no. That was done from Bruce's perspective. Had they done the fading from a different camera angle showing Ra's and Bruce at the same time in the same shot then I'd say defiantly yes it was a hallucination. But the shot was on Ra's fading and then cut to a different shot of Bruce passing out again. Basically this scene could be interpreted either way. Only someone who work on the movie can tell you for sure what they intended to convey in this scene. Actually I know one of the producers... except he only worked on Begins so that don't help.
     
  8. afmultiverse

    afmultiverse Banned

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    which still deviates from most of the modern comics.Setting a fire that can likely kill many is not much different from killing an opponent
     
  9. Takara_destron

    Takara_destron Mainly lurking these days

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    Yes it is. You took that scene way too literally.
     
  10. Ironhide1706

    Ironhide1706 Elessar Telcontar

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    Ra's wasn't really there. It was quite obviously Qui Gon Jinn's Force Ghost pretending to be Ra's Al Ghul. Flawless logic.









    /sarcasm.
     
  11. Optimus1986

    Optimus1986 TMNT & Hulk Fanatic

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    As for the Nolan movies, I've always thought of them as Elseworlds stories (Ultimates Batman if you will), so I never minded if they strayed from the source material somewhat, since they exist in they're own universe with their own rules. And the outcome was pretty damn cool.

    Jor-El tells him of his heritage when he first enters the Fortress of Solitude, and Superman tells Lois of his Kryptonian heritage in the interview. "Krypton with a C-R-I?" "No, Krypton with a K-R-Y." And Lex deduced that the Kryptonite would be lethal to him since it was radiated by the explosion that destroyed Krypton.
     
  12. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong.

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    Holy inane discussion Batman! Whats with all the pointless Batshit arguing?
     
  13. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight TFW2005 Supporter

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    Man there is this segment of the population who saw a totally different version of TDKR than everyone else. It's like you need someone to spoon feed you what happened in each scene of an easy to understand film. I'm sure even my dog understands that
    Ra's is a hallucination.
     
  14. afmultiverse

    afmultiverse Banned

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    so, he let someone die when he could have saved him?

    So, its ok to possible kill a bunch of cops to save 1 girl?

    So, its better to kill a bunch of the league, blowing up their hq, then to kill 1 prisoner.

    So overall , the Batman in the Nolan films strayed from the principles of the modern comic counterpart.
     
  15. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong.

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    Hallucination my ass. Jedi mind trick more like.

    But seriously the amount of arguing is baffling, Ra's is dead, IIRC Talia said so ('you killed my Father') which is why she's head of the League of Shadows and continuing his work. Ra's inclusion in the prison was simply a nod to Batman Begins, to reinforce the linked storyline.

    Urgh. I've been reading all this crap telling myself 'don't get dragged in, don't get dragged in, don't get dragged in'
     
  16. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime System Pride

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    No it isn't. You didn't take that scene literally enough. Seriously, don't make me repeat myself. It's annoying enough when I'm not using spoilers.

    True but even that was unrealistic. How did Jor-El know that he would develop super powers on Earth? There's no real reason why the simple change in the color of the sun should have any effect on their physical capabilities.

    In Smallvile it was because Jor-El had actually visited Earth before but that's an entirely different continuity from the movies.

    And Jor-El never told him he would be weak against Kryptonite so as I said Lex was able to figure out from nothing something Superman didn't even know.

    You should also be aware that Lois didn't write everything Superman told her. I mean she was more interested in him as a person than as a space alien and the article Lex read seemed to reflect that sense he made no mention of Krypton as he was reading the paper. It's also possible Lois left out the space part because she was afraid people would think she was crazy. Even if it was there it's still not possible for Lex to all of the sudden go on that's his weakness, rocks from the planet where he came from, because makes perfect sense within the context of the story, wait, no it doesn't.

    You can try to insert logic where there is none all you want but basically there are 3 important things here.

    1. Superman did not even know that rocks from his home world could kill him so there's no way Lex could have known it.

    2. Lex pulls a book off his book shelf with a picture of Kryptonite in it and Lex just happens to know where it is. There's no way that he could of looked it up in a book like that when no one knew about Kryptonite yet, so how was a picture of it published in a book that looks like it's older than Superman is?

    3. In Lex's speech he also pin pointed the exact location where Krypton use to be when Superman only gave Lois a very general direction like "A few hundred light years that a wayish."

    It's basically if I said that my dad is from planet Drakeon. Then some how without even mentioning it you go: Oh yeah, that planet right next to Vultureon I know where that is even though we humans have never even heard of your galaxy before and shouldn't have any more information about it other than what you directly told us. We suddenly know more about your planet than you do now because some how we managed to publish a book about it before we even knew it existed.

    Man there is this segment of the population who don't know a damn thing about Batman. It's like you have to condescend everything they say to make them understand a simple concept. I'm sure even your dog understands that
    Ra's is freaking immortal. He was immortal in the comics, he was immortal in the cartoon, and he was immortal in the movies. Bruce directly asked him how he could still be alive and he answered immortality. It's not a metaphor, it's a very literal answer to a very literal question.
     
  17. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Jor-El was one of Krypton's most eminent scientists and was planning on saving his son by rocketing him across the cosmos. He also said that 'He would look like them'. So its becomes reasonable to conclude that as a scientist with the best interests of his son very close to heart, he did some reasearch.
     
  18. Ironhide1706

    Ironhide1706 Elessar Telcontar

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    Arguing with Batman about Batman. This won't end well for Saber.
     
  19. megatron6661

    megatron6661 Well-Known Member

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    In Bruce's mind, the league of shadows always found a way of surviving, but Bruce would not physically kill someone.

    Bruce saved Ra's life, and he returns the favour to try and destroy Gotham. At that point Ra's was beyond saving, Bruce will not kill PPL, that does not say in the rule's he has to save certain PPL.
     
  20. afmultiverse

    afmultiverse Banned

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    And yet he did.If you look very carfully you can see some of the members of the league go down in that flaming house.

    He set that fire by intent, so he did kill anyone that died in the fire.,