Avengers and Transformers

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Dotmshockwave, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Droppin' Space Colonies

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    36,729
    Trophy Points:
    392
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +18,451
    I think part of it is that nobody making the TF films can see past the fact the Transformers are mechanical lifeforms and understand they can be relateable just as much as humans. Hence why more screentime is needed on the pointless humans so the audience can get a relateable perspective...even though it's never been necessary.

    The first film made it work because it wasn't mainly just ONE angle from the human side, it was three seperate stories (Lennox's team, then Sam, then the hackers) that converged into one narrative when they all went to Hoover Dam and while it wasn't anything special beyond an eye-popping final battle like any decent action summer blockbuster, it remained a film with enough unique charm and novelty to do well enough.

    Except Kruger can't fucking write so he's been trying to copy that for the past three films, except also dropping the multiple angles aspect and only focusing on the one group of humans. Gradually we've been seeing the removal of the Decepticons as the main bad guys ever since, given ROTF has Senator Asshole, then DOTM had the Decepticons relying on pre-existing human connections to get anything done, and AoE saw the Decepticons having become a complete joke in this series in the form of the closest thing to them literally being knock-offs...who were also built by humans and were about as threatening as a stiff breeze to a brick wall reinforced with rebar.

    That's what Kruger's trying to do. He's trying to make the films be just another generic aliens vs. humans series. And because the humans simply must have most of the screen time, it trivializes the transformers themselves as being little more than plot device siege engine setpieces instead of dynamic characters like they should be in a film named after them. If somebody could replace Kruger and understand that the Autobots and Decepticons don't need to be around humans to be relatable, something every other Transformers writer in history has understood, then we would see the films become exponentially better.
     
  2. transformervic1

    transformervic1 HI!

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Posts:
    4,675
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +1,171
    And so begins my first rant in ages here.

    Man, Kruger really needs to GTFO. I like these movies for what they are, but the more I see just how much more "right" there is to the Marvel films, the more I loose patience with the TF films. The whole "making it up as I go" line...just....FUCK. NO. I, no, WE want(more like need) a writer that has the end planned from the beginning. None of this "I don't know if I'm returning" B.S. We also need a new director for the same reasons, preferably 2 directors so that the TF films can stay consistent with time and keep the general audience's attention in not just TV media, but with movies as well.

    It sucks we have to rely on a reboot, that may or may not happen mind you, for the TF films to be possibly done right. But really, this is anyone's chance to come in. Bay has said he left AOE open for any "takers". I would love for someone else to come in, keep the design team, get a new and more competent writer, and go at it.

    But alas, this is wishful thinking. Plus, it's Hasbro. Meaning they'll have a tf series, then movie. then Tf series, then movie. I personally wish they'd do what someone from these boards mentioned earlier(I think in this very thread) and just pull from the IDW stuff, pull a Marvel and have movies centered around certain characters then have a "big" movie where shit really goes down, and so on. Better than "random ass characters show up probably out of my own ass crack with ZERO explanation on how they're even there and not even characterize them properly".

    Wishful thinking. Gotta love AND hate it. These movies can be so much more. They can be up and beyond marvel movies even. But nope. We're stuck with the same people who, all they know how to do, is shoot cool shots, have explosions, and make it up as they go. ugh.

    /rant.
     
  3. tokuformers

    tokuformers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Posts:
    138
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +16
    correct.
    the transformers universe may be like Marvel and DC in the film and any media.
     
  4. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Posts:
    10,273
    News Credits:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +3,482
    The way the scripts are handled yeah, I'll agree on that. As far as the cg or designs, TF for me.

    Josh Nizzi worked on both Avengers and Transformers. This provides a look at how there are similarities between both universes.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    I'm all for alien/insectoid aesthetics, specifically for the Decepticons. The insect like design isn't new in Hollywood. Spielberg and JJ Abrahams seem to share the same ideals for aliens, or at least that's how the whole alien look is going nowadays.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Transformers, like the Fallen and the protoforms bite off a lot from that alien/insectoid look.
    Personally I want to see more protoforms in the next film, more scenes in space where Transformers originated maybe.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    For me the attack from the the Chitauri in Avengers reminds can be compared easily with the Protoform cons in DOTM.
    Obviously there are more scenes scenes of the Chitauri than there were protoforms, but that's because transformers are more complicated in design.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That big whale/snake ship in Avengers was pretty nifty. Transformers ship also seemed like a whale.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Hulk took down one of those with a single punch, and the only similar creature in Transformers, although technically not a ship, was the Driller. The Driller might put up a good fight but it wouldn't last long against Hulk. :( 
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Avengers will continue to have a far superior script and more characterization. Transformers on the other hand may one day improve on the story but as far as more screen time for characters. ..that has yet to be seen.

    It took four films to have more robot scenes but not without cutting out transformations. A lot of people don't understand or forget that transformers are very expensive to be on screen.

    Avengers are all humans so there is an ease of having them onscreen. As far as the enemies, yes there is a lot of cg there too. I would just argue that it's nowhere compared to Transformers.
     
  5. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Droppin' Space Colonies

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    36,729
    Trophy Points:
    392
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +18,451
    Not exactly. Transformers are only that expensive because they need to look like overcomplex puzzle boxes made of scrap metal.

    For comparison, let's take ROTF and Cameron's Avatar. Both released in 2009 and the latter is only $239 million in its budget, while the former was $200 mill.

    Avatar, without question, is more CGI intensive. Outside of a few set pieces, almost everything in the film is just one big CGI visual off of green screens, if even that. But then you factor in the subtle CGI you wouldn't even KNOW was CGI (such as the mouths when they wear the air masks - yes, those are CGI!) and that's more intuitive detail work than in any TF film.

    And yet Avatar would become the most profitable movie to date and ROTF...well, you know.
     
  6. TheYearIs2005

    TheYearIs2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Posts:
    385
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Likes:
    +0
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    Posts:
    83,095
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +2,011
    Bravo Burnout Bravo.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Posts:
    10,273
    News Credits:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +3,482
    Technically this thread is addressing Avengers and Transformers, but I'll be okay using Cameron's Avatar as an example.

    I don't know the the numbers much but I wouldn't be surprised Avatar exceeded Transformers in cgi glory.

    Now if Transformers had 10 years in development under their belt (ROTF) I'm confiden the result would be the heaviest cgi film ever.
     
  9. TUROK1134

    TUROK1134 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Posts:
    428
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Likes:
    +54
    It's also the first time we've seen these heroes act like actual people, rather than walking plot devices.

    It only took a billion movies for it to happen, but hey, 'bout time.
     
  10. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Posts:
    4,505
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +1,106
    What are you even talking about? Every single Marvel movie have been character driven, and they make comedic asides based on those characters all the time. The worst Marvel movie to date has been Thor The Dark World, and that still has shining moments of character work.

    You're just talking nonsense now.
     
  11. TheYearIs2005

    TheYearIs2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Posts:
    385
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Likes:
    +0
  12. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Droppin' Space Colonies

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    36,729
    Trophy Points:
    392
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +18,451
    That wasn't the point of my post.

    No, that would be Toy Story.

    Because Toy Story is all CGI and was the first to use it.

    The Transformers films, at least going off of the recent announcements from the Hasbro CEO, will never not be live action.

    And more time in development is more often then not a bad thing, too. Ever heard of Daikatana? Duke Nukem Forever? The most recent restored edit of Metropolis?
     
  13. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Posts:
    10,273
    News Credits:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +3,482
    If a director for Transformers was passionate enough with a film project like James was with Avatar, and given "x" number of years working on it, I wouldn't dare compare that to Toy Story.
     
  14. stepsongrapes

    stepsongrapes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Posts:
    557
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Likes:
    +4
    I don't think you're watching the same Marvel movies I am. . . .
     
  15. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Posts:
    4,505
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +1,106
    I don't think he watches the same movies as everyone else. I'm not trying to be mean, but everything he says comes with a startling lack of expertise matched only by the overzealousness it's said with. And if you try to argue with/correct him, you get treated like an asshole.
     
  16. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Posts:
    1,401
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +666
    Google+:
    I actually liked thor the dark world galvatron 2, but thats just my opinion, i mean hey i like these movies and I know they suck, anyway anyone else happy about bay being out, i didnt vote for a reboot simply because how open ended the story was( even though it was a messed up ending at that) still though im happy bays gone. NOW GET KRUGER THE HELL OUT AND WE'LL ALL REJOICE.
     
  17. TheYearIs2005

    TheYearIs2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Posts:
    385
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Likes:
    +0
    Hope!
    [​IMG]
     
  18. TUROK1134

    TUROK1134 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Posts:
    428
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Likes:
    +54
    Watch them again. Aside from the first acts of Cap 1 and Iron Man 1, the films are all exposition, jokes, and exposition. You get some moments of emotion peppered in, which are quickly brushed aside with some clever joke or quip, but I don't get the feeling that these are characters with agency, but rather vehicles to further the plot.
     
  19. stepsongrapes

    stepsongrapes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Posts:
    557
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Likes:
    +4
    Turok, it's pretty clear that you live in bizarro world, when you hold out TF as an example of great movies and complain that the MCU has no characterization. Without even trying hard, I can rattle of scenes in the recent MCU offerings that develop the characters more than the entirety of the TF movieverse combined:

    1) Winter Soldier: Black Widow and Captain dialogue on the ship, Capt. jogging scene; Capt. and Nick Fury in Capt's apartment.
    2) Darkworld: Loki conversation with his mother, Loki and Thor conversion when he breaks Loki out, Loki and Odin in the throne room.
    3) Avengers: Black Widow and Banner dialogue, Loki monologue in Germany, Loki and Thor in the forest, Widow and Loki on the carrier.

    Any one of those scenes tells you more about what moves those characters than you ever get in any all of the TF movies, combined.
     
  20. Chris James

    Chris James Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Posts:
    3,504
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    San Diego
    Likes:
    +1,948
    Nah. The worst MCU film by far is Iron Man 2. I thought The Dark World was better than the original.