Avengers and Transformers

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Dotmshockwave, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. Dark Skull

    Dark Skull Well-Known Enabler Veteran

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    A master with words....
     
  2. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Movie optimus is Almost exactly like G1 optimus but given the weight of seriousness. as For the asethics every series has a different one.

    Except for Hawkeye, Iron man Making Ultron, the Mandarin, Thor being an Alien instead of a god, and The complete lack of mutants sure.
     
  3. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I'm beginning to think that you have no idea what you're talking about, no offense. Yes, nearly every iteration of the franchise has had a somewhat different aesthetic. The AEC trilogy featured highly angular, "boxy" robots with anime influence, akin to the G1 aesthetic. Animated, while highly stylized, featured mechanoids that, while more rounded, were still blocky and often humanoid. In both the aforementioned continuities, the styling of numerous bots is deliberately meant to evoke their G1 counterparts, especially in Animated. The movieverse, on the other hand, featured more organic, insectoid and non-human designs, and it's characters were often heavily divergent from the previous incarnations of their namesakes, aesthetically. The massive amount of bawling over that in this very forum should be proof enough.

    Characterwise, I might be willing to agree with you, if they'd never made a movie after the first film. After that, however, we compare a stoic, compassionate defender (G1 Optimus killed himself over hurting civilians in a video game, remember), to various similar-often-to-the-point-of-banality incarnations in AEC, to the young, but humble and devoted to peace Optimus in Animated, to the Optimus from the movies that takes faces, murders defeated opponents, threatens other characters into submission, and kills humans. One of these things is not like the others, and it has nothing to do with seriousness.


    As for your counterexamples from the Marvelverse, Hawkeye is actually fairly similar to his comic character (minus the classic costume, he shares more in common with the Ultimate incarnation in that regard, thankfully so I think), Ultron's creator is a fairly minor character point (and Iron Man has been tied to Ultron before, especially within the scope of stories they seem to be drawing from in the films. Mutants, for much of the marvel history, were not a huge universal factor outside of the x-titles (Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch appear to be in the MCU, so we'll see if there will be no mutants in that universe). Lastly, Thor being an alien instead of a god has been part of the comic canon for decades, though some writers have basically ignored it (Alex Ross' Earth X storyline uses this point heavily though). The Mandarin was actually closer to what he's been treated as in the comics in recent years, though yes, different from his more iconic portrayal.
     
  4. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    But realism and not being childish and somehow that's less black and white and dur de dur.
     
  5. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

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    wow this thread has gone down the crap hole, galvatron 2 I am sorry for attacking you earlier and even though i enjoy these movies often have similar thoughts on subject matters with you especially about violent optimus but i dont want to start that crap so nevermind.
     
  6. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    This forum complained about, Flames on primes hood, and Hound Having a Mustach thats hardly a good use of an argument.

    Yes The Movie designs were more alien as was their aesthetic but most characters all retained very clear ties to their old appearances. Jazz's Visor, Bumblebee's horns, Lockdown's Hook, Megatrons helmet,Frenzy's blue optics, Soundwaves face, ect.

    Comic Optimus did that Video game thing, and its infamous from not only beign out of character but also stupid.

    G1 optimus almost "murdered" a defeated opponent, he also Brainwashed enemy Combatants, Celebrated the apparent deaths of his Enemies anomongst other actions. Like i said the only difference is weight, G1 and Movie prime have more in common then g1 and Animate prime
    Wrong, Comic Hawkeye arbors killing, and has a Swashbuckling nature oh and is a former Circus performer who was once a Ironman supervillian, who cap had to teach martial art not a black ops agent that ran with Black widdow.

    On that Note The Avengers were not a Shield collected secret weapon they were a group of guys that all showed up at the same place one day.

    Never to the creator role, which is pretty damn imporant for most of ultrons relationships and Hank Pyms character.

    Speaking of the Pyms they were founding members of the Avengers

    Kevin Feige the head of everything said they can't use mutants but they can use Quicksilver and Scarlet witch, this is a major change as they used to be mutant terroirst and their dad is Mag frekaing neto

    No it hasn't. Thor is Magic he has always been magic, his mother in the comics is Gaea Elder goddess and creator/Spirt of earth, hence why in the comics part of his powers are Dominion over the earth. He can hear an Alien child Pray to him Galaxies away. He has lifted a serpent size of the planet. He has fought Angels and demons and he is best Friends with Hercules. We've had stories about mortals dying and going to Vahalla and met with Thor . For some one who said i don't know what I'm talking about this is a pretty big error to make.

    The Mandarin has never been a British actor pretending to be a Terrorist for a Corrupt R&D corperation. sorry no.
     
  7. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    Sam is entirely untrained dude. His flailing around, ragdoll style is kind of proof of that. Sam's a doofus, and he got lucky. He wasn't part of NEST

    And in other TF universes characters have been thrown into lava and survived.
    An alien robot dying of a crotch shot is stupid, and worthy of mockery, and also reenforces my point on how weak they are.

    I'm not arguing that it's not a valid tactic. This is about how The Hulk specifically , is more powerful than any Bayformer. And I'm reenforcing my point by stating the 3rd in command of the Decepticon army shouldn't be befuddled by a parachute, bc it makes him look like a chump.

    What? Typoes, dude. Anyway i stated earlier that Megatron pretty much just stands there while Optimus slaughters him. Pretty half hearted to me. Hardly an appropriate final battle. And much like Shockwave, this makes Megatron looks like a chump.


    Okay, fair enough. As I recall, the Hulk took out a flying monster with one punch, and Optimus had to work to take out the Driller. Movie Hulk would still mop the floor with them.

    Lol! What? Are you fooling with me?
    There's a reason why a lot of us make fun of movie verses tin foil armor, bc Bayformers can't shrug off jack. Usually it just takes a bullet, or a Snickers bar to take those guys out.
    Sure G1 Brawn went out like a bitch, I dont think anyone can deny that. But that was Megatron which did it, I can almost forgive that.
    I'm not even shocked to see a Bayformer die anymore, I'm surprised to see them actually survive a fight.
    If you want to nerd debate that's fine, just don't think I'm not gonna catch you making stuff up by saying Bayformers can shrug off damage. Lol!
     
  8. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Nah, I'm not going to do the whole line by line thing. Hound,89 we've got pages and pages in this thread of you showing how inaccurate your perceptions of things are on a veritable shopping list of topics. You and the other readers can take what I've said or leave it, as I have no real interest in expending the kind of effort responding to you is going to take in this garbage dump of a thread.
     
  9. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Lennox was flailing around too, He might not be triand but he is experienced.


    Not its not, thats a blind shot and a direct close range shot. and has no bearing on their "Weakness" other then you choice to look at it in a poor light

    You agree its valid tactic but your complain its "it din't make him look cool so hes weak" yeah thats rock solid.




    Its nether he dosn't just stand their he tries to kill him he missed he died. It doesn't make him look liek a chump in any way he tried to kill prime prime killed him first



    Iron man was taking those things out too, the Driller was much bigger and didn't have a any organic components and so no easy way to take it down, id Bet the driller could take those monsters easily and probably the hulk too.


    not just brawn, Prowl and ratchet too. and thats just in the movies, do i have to point every little bit of ridiculousness that puts the g1 autobots down? how bout i bring up the Episode with Lord chumley?

    Show me counter evidence. ive show my evidence supporting my argument, Prime Shrugging off multiple shots and even a stab to the chest, Devastator having a full blown bot come out of his head and proceed like nothing happened. Brawl Taking on the combined forces of the autobots marines and jets, and still keeps coming not even caring he got an arm cut off. speaking of arms remember how Starscream got his arm cut off and all he did was reattach it to fix it? also Megatron took a direct point blank shot to the chest from prime and shrugged it off like it was nothing in ROTF. How about hound being able to keep fighting till he was about ready to fall apart taking how many shots from the cons in the mean time. How about Ironhide and the Dreads Ramming into each other at full speed and then getting up like it didn't happen?
     
  10. Dark Skull

    Dark Skull Well-Known Enabler Veteran

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    Jazz's visor. One small, tiny aesthetic.

    Bumblebee's horns. You could barely tell that they were there. As a matter of fact, after reading your post, I went to go look for it. They're so freaking small, you'd really have to pay close attention to his head to really see it. It looks more like a panel than a horn on either side of his head actually. So no...that's not "clear" when you have to freaking stare at him to it as if you're looking for Waldo himself.

    Megatron's helmet? Are you for real? Like seriously, Bayformer Megatron's head looks nowhere NEAR G1 Megatron's head. G1 Frenzy had a red visor. Not blue optics. Nice try, but that won't work. Soundwave's face? You serious? You gotta be kidding me.....

    This face
    [​IMG]

    and this face
    [​IMG]

    do not look like this face
    [​IMG]

    It would seem you're just seeing what you want to here...and not what's actually there.

    Which episode(s) did he do this? I'd like to know. Because all that you're listing, I don't ever recall seeing it in the G1 cartoons. Comics maybe? If so, which issue? Please cite your sources because I have a feeling you're just making shit up for the sake of arguing with Aernaroth.

    You know what? Nevermind. Don't answer that. Aernaroth is right. I don't want to read anymore of your BS. I'm just going to pretend you're not posting and ignore it from here on out.
     
  11. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Take the hole "Avengers movies are super accurate to comics" argument to a marvel forum and see how that goes for you, thats all i'm gonna say, they will tell you the same damn thing.
     
  12. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Counter argument where?

    Those leviathans were fodder, and small compared to the driller.
     
  14. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    I'm just going to skip over most of this, just to keep things brief.
    Chumley never killed anyone. And granted it was not the Autobots finest hour.
    Brawn and the gang were all killed by Megatron, that gets a free pass, and not a doofy human, or a parachute.

    Okay, I'm starting to realize something here; you're taking me literally, and not exorcising any critical thinking on your part. So I'm going to cut you some slack on this.
    I'm not about to go through a battle by battle analysis on each of the Bayformers successes and failures throughout the movies. I don't have time for that, it's unnecessary, also if I did, you would be very disappointed at the results.
    Of course a main character is going to survive until the plot says they no longer serve a porpose in the story. And once that character is through being useful they are killed off.....quickly....and without much a fight....that is the basis for everyone's critical complaints about Bayformers dying easily.
    Starscream was a badass in the first movie, and probably the only Decepticon who wasn't a total screw up. By the 3rd movie....he was killed by Sam....I'm sure a lot of us were expecting an epic final battle with Bumbelee, or sometbody, and what we got was Sam killing Starscream. Pitiful...
    Same thing goes for Megatron, as much as I hate movie Megatron he was tough, and by the 3rd movie he was a chump.
    My end point being is that Bayformers die, and they die easily, and most of the time for stupid reasons.
    The Hulk on the other hand, yea of course he faces his obstacles, but he always comes back swinging and smashing, and stronger than ever. Bayformers are just more easily killed.
    And this is why I believe that the Hulk would beat the living tin foil out of the movieverse Transformers.
    If you disagree with me that's fine.
    It's just a lot of your excuses are easily debunked by the overall mortality rate of Bayformers, I'm sorry.
    I'm sure if three or four Transformers ganged up on the Hulk the big green would have a real fight on his hands, but one on one my $$'s on Hulk every time.
    Okay, I'm spent. Good debate.
     
  15. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    He didn't kill any one out of choice not cause he couldn't he still took them down and tore them appart easily


    I don't See why they get a pass, Sam is more competent then G1 megatron was :wink: 


    I am more aware your being Literal and Facetious, but when hats what you throw out there thats what i'm going to deal with, especially when i provide examples and you don't respond with any thing but more facetiousness.

    I think the Hulk could take down the likes of bumblebee, But i don't think it would be nearly as easy as you imply. Put him up against the likes of Prime, Sentinel, Grimlock ,The Fallen or Lockdown (especially if he throws out his grenades) and I don't think It's a sure thing no matter how you slice it.

    But I Agree Good Debate
     
  16. Ironhide1234

    Ironhide1234 Here.

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    Ah, glad we got that sorted.
     
  17. grindcore138

    grindcore138 桐生会は不滅なり!

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    Comparing the durability of G1 Cartoon and Bay Movie Transformers is – if you're able to take a step back and look at it objectively – dumb as shit.
    And no, not because I think the movie TFs are made of tinfoil, but because in both series their durability is all over the damn place as the plot needs it to be.

    In the cartoon the characters spent 69 episodes either just straight up taking shots like it was nothing or only getting knocked down, getting blown up or dismantled and subsequently repaired easily and all manner of other silly things.
    Then the '86 movie comes along and because it's not Saturday morning anymore people can die (to make way for new toys!), whereas before the whole thing would've ended with "Decepticons, retreeeeeaaat!" and anyone that was hurt would've been scooped up, put back together, Spike would say something funny, everyone laughs, credits roll.

    In the Bay movies, well, same deal. Plot armour is as thick or thin as it needs to be, blah blah blah.

    Search your feelings, Lord Vad- Hound89. You will know it to be true.
     
  18. NotRamjet97

    NotRamjet97 Well-Known Member

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    Something I just thought of, on the subject...

    At the end of Avengers, they show how everyone generally really appreciated what the Avengers did, they were heroes, we all feel really good about what they did. They saved the day.

    At the end of the Transformers movies, we feel "They did it? We won?!". But it's a lonely victory, the public isn't going "Yes! The Autobots won!" In fact, they're doing the opposite after DOTM.

    Avengers feels like an Emergency response team, responding to a natural disaster. The Autobots end up like Vietnam veterans. When they return home, no one's really there to help them, in fact, they're even scorned by society, saying they're no better than the enemy they fought. They're...alone.
     
  19. Autobots14

    Autobots14 I'm pregant Trevor

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    Well some people in the end of Avengers were like can we trust them? And also about the Transformers yes that is true Transformers had a realistic moment in that matter.
     
  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    Hardly. That was the general public showing near-unanimous praise for the Avengers.

    The government, however? Well, funding for those flying violations of the Geneva Convention that was Project: Insight had to come from somewhere when all they supposedly were supposed to do in general was prevent the Avengers from being needed again. And by the end of Winter Soldier, every single person on the face of the Earth didn't trust SHIELD, and by extension the supergroup that had been supported by them.

    They weren't dancing in the streets after the first film either...

    Wow dude, really? I don't recall ever reading about how soldiers returning from Vietnam were both scorned by the public along with being fucking hunted down after the government betrayed them for a third time and let some asshat independent douche melt them down 1984 style into knockoffs.

    In fact, all this really shows is that the Transformers films literally can not work in their endgames at the least without humanity being total fucking assholes because they think the bad guys aren't lying their goddamn asses off every single time. Humanity is no friend to the Cybertronians, why else does Optimus go all "Fuck this, I'm outta here" and randomly flies off at the end of AoE?