Avengers (4): Endgame - Movie Discussion

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by eagc7, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

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    I'm about to go and see it for the second time. I am looking forward to seeing it again, despite not enjoying it the first time.
     
  2. Sky Ray

    Sky Ray Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Red Skull say back in Infinity War that he was cursed to watch over the soul stone until someone can take it?

    So that basically means they wouldn't meet at all because he was free to leave that place after it was claimed.
    Therefore we have another alternate timeline like with what happened to Loki escaping at the end of the Battle of New York, but now the Red Skull is loose.
     
  3. Megatron118

    Megatron118 Excelsior! Moderator

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    He hadn’t been in combat in 5 years, so....
     
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  4. TLK Barricade

    TLK Barricade Keep calm and Hail Megatron.

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    I don't think they did. That and the other changes to history make me want to see movies set in these new timelines. What's going to happen in the reality where Loki takes the Tesseract, or the one where Gamora doesn't join the Guardians of the Galaxy, or the one where Steve reunited with Peggy? Those would make for some pretty interesting "What If..." scenarios.
     
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  5. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    I don't even know where to begin.

    *sigh*

    The plot holes, they are aplenty.

    And all of this hullabaloo with Captain Marvel/Brie Larson?
    She's utterly pointless. She had maybe 5 minutes of screentime in a 3+ hour movie? Her biggest claim to fame? Preventing Thanos from headbutting her and he still slapped her around pretty good.
    She needs to dial it back and be reined in. Good grief, she's ridiculous if this is all we have to look forward to.

    I find it hard to swallow that we had Black Widow, Scarlet Witch and Pepper Potts, all of whom are strong women and established characters and well...
    they're all pushed aside to make room for Okoye (whom I do like a great deal, but she ain't no Avenger), Valkyrie (who is being set up as the female Thor) and Captain Marvel who did f'all in both her movie and Endgame. I mean, I know the Soul stone requires a soul for it to be obtained, but after all these years they just chuck Nat over the cliff like a piece of garbage (symbolically) and just showcase the new chick Avengers.
    It really didn't sit well with me. At all. (I'm not alone.)

    The plot hole of
    bringing everyone back 5 years later
    undoes a lot of what they set up in the first hour and how they wasted a good scene pushing an agenda (much like I talked about above) in which
    the Russo brother plays a Gay man in the survivors group and (which they admit they put the scene in to have a character represent the LGBTQ+ community)
    and it's a SOLID scene. I don't care what side of the issue you come down on, it was a tasteful, well acted, touching and ultimately heartbreaking scene. You literally felt for this guy and this wave of sadness hit me as I listened to his tale. I actually put my head down for a second and closed my eyes. It was such a human and humane scene. It didn't seem to pander, it didn't seem forced, it was natural and fluid. And then...
    realizing his pain and agony and that of his date's is about to be undone because those who've been gone for 5 years are about to suddenly reappear out of nowhere and all of the feeling of that scene then becomes pandering because they admitted they put it in to push an agenda and it cheapens it. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he and his date will have their loves back, everyone will, but part of the impact of that scene was that you felt his pain. I would've been perfectly fine if they had put the scene elsewhere in the film where Steve could've told him not to give up hope, it's going to be alright, etc. I know people will lambaste me for this, I'll get PMs or something, but it did ruin the scene for me after the fact. It was such a touching scene, and the fact that he was Gay just showed we're all human regardless of what side of the issues we're on and they robbed it of that by leaving you with "wait... Some of these people have moved on/gotten married, etc. Some probably killed themselves out of unbearable suffering and sadness and their loved ones will return to... This. This mess.

    I would've been perfectly fine if the guy had been leading the group and his mate was lost prior to the snap. Pre-existing grief and it would've been even more impactful if he could give hope to Captain America, who needed it in that moment more than ever. Either natural causes or the attack in NYC, so he was leading the group and his moving moment wasn't robbed of its impact because it's undone in the end.

    I liked his moment, it deserved better.

    I also don't understand why they decided to
    kill Natasha, who found a family and redemption in the Avengers, but Clint who became a murderer, basically a serial killer of bad guys, gets his family back?? And why bring everyone back at this point in time? 5 years later? Why? And their subpar explanation of how time and travel through it works was just garbage. It was a muddled mess. Rhodey had the right idea... Kill Thanos as a baby. (Nice of Disney/Marvel to give a Deadpool nod. Maybe they're going to be alright as overlords...) Because they returned the stones to their respective times... There are other adult Thanos...es throughout the past and what's to stop him from rehatching this plan and trying again? Killing him before he loses his mind will prevent the plan from ever getting into motion to begin with.

    They were so focused on fan service, getting the conclusion they wanted (they wanted it to end exactly as it did, no take backs, no quitsies, etc...) and they botched more or less everything else, storywise, in pursuit of what makes it pop, look pretty and tie it up in a bow that's barely holding together.

    You can tell there's more of a movie, here, but they had to cut the crap out of it to get it to fit in the can.

    That's the biggest shame.
     
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  6. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    Watching it tomorrow. Looking forward to more Thanos
     
  7. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Veteran

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    More I think about the ending, the more it falls apart.
    Whole point of the talk with the ancient one was to demonstrate how the teams actions of taking the stones out of their respective realities would affect said realities. Like there's a reality where Loki took off with the tesseract, or guardians never forming. Then how the fuck did Cap return as an old man? Sure he lived his life then he could give the shield to Sam in a reality, but it's not the main one. And I don't think he found another quantum portal just to make that last trip. Even if he did, that's not what the movie implied.
     
  8. Prime17

    Prime17 Seeker

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    Those aren’t plot holes though. You may not like the story choice but that doesn’t make it a plot hole.
    Bring everyone back 5 years unaged without changing the timeline means Infinity War still had consequences and just like how society in the MCU had to deal with the alien invasion in Avengers, future movies with have to deal with the social effects of the half of the world who moved on dealing with the other half who have suddenly returned.

    They explained in the movie why killing baby Thanos wouldn’t work. It only creates an alternate timeline. It doesn’t change your own timeline. You can never change the past of your own timeline to change the present. This prevents the Grandfather Paradox. Since Thanos had destroyed the stones, the only way to bring back everyone was to take the stones from the past and snap everyone back. The act of them going back in time also created alternate timelines. This is why Nebula was able to kill the other Nebula. The latter was from a new alternate timeline.


    Cap probably spent his life with Peggy in alternate timeline and when she died, he came back to the original timeline. He probably didn’t need to land on the machine as Tony and him didn’t need the machine to go back to the 70s.
    Another theory is that Cap was always Peggy’s husband and he was always part of a time loop.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  9. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    Hmm... in the movie I saw Captain Marvel
    saved Tony and Nebula from dying in the void of space and single handedly destroyed Thanos’ ship that was utterly decimating the heroes, thereby saving the day twice.

    Did Australia get a director’s cut or something? Because in the version we got she was integral to the survival of the main characters in both Act One and Act Three.
     
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  10. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Veteran

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    Just realised they put a dumbass line saying only the absence of an infinity stone can create new realities. So as long as they're there its all good, which is so lazy and bullshit. So in theory, killing baby Thanos would've worked just as Old Cap being part of the main timeline all along.
     
  11. Verno

    Verno Beast Wars Collector

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    So, I'm back from my second viewing.

    I was able to enjoy the movie more this time. Perhaps I had certain story expectations going in (a year of throwing around theories will tend to do that (Note to self: Put them aside next time)) and they got in the way of enjoying the story that Marvel wanted to tell.

    Having said that, there are still things I do not enjoy about it:

    Much like Valkyrie, I think I prefer either version of the Hulk. This conglomerate is as useless in the lab as he is on the battlefield.

    Thor's story could really have been great. The scenes with his mother are fantastic, and could have really worked in redirecting a brooding, broken Thor in his efforts going forward.

    But instead, the Thor we get is just comic relief, and it's a real shame.

    Black Widow deserved better. I hope she and Gamora are still out there somewhere, but if Thanos has destroyed the stones, wouldn't the Soul World have gone with it?

    And weren't they trying for a love story with she and Banner not that long ago? No resolution there, and if there was something that could have really tipped the scales with an angry Hulk, her death could/should have been it. But all we get is a bench tossed across a pond.

    One thing I did like (and don't think I've seen it mentioned yet) is
    the small scene with Rhodie and Nebula, talking about working with what you've got. It's a nice moment, especially for Rhodie who has not a lot else to do in the film sadly.
     
  12. Insurgent

    Insurgent Big Red Fire Snorting Dragon

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    No they didn't. If you are talking about The Ancient One, then she is talking about removing the infinity stones creating a branching timeline because that's all Hulk was talking about doing. That was going to be the only change, so of course she would only refer to them as creating it. But any change done in the past would create a branch, so Peggy marrying Steve, Loki escaping with the Tesseract after NY, Thanos and his army dissapearing in 2014, all of these would create brand new divergent timelines to the main one.
     
  13. Omegashark18

    Omegashark18 Combaticon turned Autobot

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    She was basically a Deus Ex in those moments, or can be perceived as one.
     
  14. Prime17

    Prime17 Seeker

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    She’s not a Deus Ex as we were already introduced to her before and know what she can do. A Deus Ex would be if the X-Men, the Silver Surfer, Fantastic Four, or Galactus all of sudden came and saved the day.
     
  15. Omegashark18

    Omegashark18 Combaticon turned Autobot

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    Fair point.
     
  16. Omegashark18

    Omegashark18 Combaticon turned Autobot

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    Though seriously, I do not like the short haired look on her. Give her the in between look with one side shaved.
     
  17. Gaastra

    Gaastra Well-Known Member

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    Yes and if the skull was gone then cap would have to take his place. So I guess cap showed up before skull left.

    Thanos beat cm around? He throws her one time then she beats the living snot out of him. He had to pull the stone out of the glove to save his butt! Without that stone he would have been toast!
     
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  18. Gaastra

    Gaastra Well-Known Member

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  19. MegaPrime33

    MegaPrime33 Follow me @NerdActivist TFW2005 Supporter

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    I just remembered they never showed that scene where they some how find the pager and activate it and then meet Carol for the first time. I thought it was odd when she brings Tony and Nebula back that no one questions who she is or what kind of power she has, they just immediately accept it.
     
  20. areaseven

    areaseven Live to Win

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