Avengers (4): Endgame - Movie Discussion

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by eagc7, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Good movie, but depressing as all fuck. I felt like I needed to see a shrink afterwards.

    I dunno...can't say I loved it, but can't say I disliked it either.

    Think I'll go rewatch T:Rags for 30th or so time now.
     
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  2. TattooedRobot

    TattooedRobot A Very Stable Genius TFW2005 Supporter

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    Damn just saw it. Great wrap-up for the first whatever of the MCU. Not as great a stand-alone movie as Infinity War.
    I was okay with Steve’s retirement, I thought I would hate it but it was okay. What do you bet he had a kid with Peggy... the Mjolnir stuff was fantastic. I am trying to figure out who is going to end up in the Iron-man armor. Rhode? Not sure Don has enough charisma to carry the character. Tony’s death was just absolutely amazing and sad. The whole end would have been meaningless if they just brought everyone back. But damn giving Tony a daughter was brutal.
     
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  3. eagc7

    eagc7 TF Movieverse fan

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    No, only those that were killed by the stones could be brought back, now maybe Tony could've been brought by the Time stone, perhaps, But Vision could not be brought back since he needed the mind stone to be alive, but they had to bring back this mind stone to its timeline and Quicksilver is a pre-snap death, so he couldn't be brought back either, remember the original Gamora and Loki stayed dead, because they were not killed by the stones
     
  4. RetrogradeMercury

    RetrogradeMercury Well-Known Member

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    For me it was much more enjoyable and fun than Infinity War which I found a bit of a slog.

    I really enjoyed the “time heist” aspect. It was so fun revisiting past films and having all those little callbacks. It felt like the MCU at its most comic-booky and fan-servicey but in a good way. The universe felt vast and deep enough that making a trip to 70s New Jersey SHIELD to steal some Pym particles seemed like a totally natural progression.

    Idk, just having the vast roster of characters interacting with one another is what I enjoy most from these films. Despite the major character deaths, this felt more breezy and enjoyable than Infinity War.

    Tony’s send-off was nice although I don’t think I love his ending. Him self-sacrificing himself to save the day is a character beat he’s already been through. And it’s disappointing to see him leave behind a family and a positive life he was able to build even after the snap.

    That may be why I enjoyed Cap’s ending. He saved the day, passed the torch and got to finally settle down. Yeah, there’s some messiness about why he wouldn’t use the opportunity to change the past and all that but Im just glad he got a happy ending. He got to finally live the life he would’ve had had he never been frozen.
     
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  5. LigerPrime

    LigerPrime Well-Known Member

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    You’re making too much sense in terms of the characters you listed - especially for
    Thor and Bruce.

    They practically undid every all the character progression they did with Thor and Hulk.

    I like the way you highlighted Thor maturing into a wise king of sorts. In the end, he becomes a buffoon.

    For Bruce, you hit the nail on the head. There’s 2 separate personalities inside a singular body and both are fighting control over it. It isn’t in the Hulk’s character to cede to “puny” Banner.

    You got me on Nate’s death - another assassin for the soul gem?

    The time travel part is also messy. Very good example on the Cap living out his life. Because unless the other Cap isn’t found, it means we have 2 Caps running around in whatever timeline Rogers went too.

    Other than that, the send off for Tony was pretty good.
    .

    Please post more of your thoughts if you have time as I appreciate your POV.

    Maybe it’s an Easter egg of sorts
    She and Rhodes were dating (?) of sorts in the comics.
    .
     
  6. KnightHawkke

    KnightHawkke Flynn Lives

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    I will see this in theaters at least 3 times, there is just too many winks, nods, easter eggs, and details I want to catch! I am however... disappointed by the lack of a certain character with a certain accessory in the Marvel Selects line to date. This issue better be rectified in a future wave, I can understand holding off on it to avoid spoilers, but let's not wait forever now.

    Anyway, the second and third times should be easier to watch after all, yeah.
     
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  7. Megatron118

    Megatron118 Excelsior! Moderator

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    Thor’s arc isn’t finished yet though. I can see how his status in Endgame is a turn off, but it makes sense to me personally. He mistakenly let half the universe die. That is a immense burden to bear. They clearly teased him for GOTG 3, so I’m sure he’ll complete his story there, or in another Thor solo movie. I think Brie is fine as Carol and she was good in this one so agree to disagree.

    This will not be the last Avengers movie, it’ll just be the last one for a while. The new roster will eventually be heroes like Carol, Strange, Black Panther, Peter, Wanda, Rhodes maybe, etc. Marvel made their choice and they’re sticking to it, people generally respect that. They’ll find ways to keep interest and garner new fans too. These characters needed their stories concluded, and the actors themselves wanted to move on.

    Cap probably figured out a way to get it back to Asgard. He had time, clearly. Sharon situation is changed, she wouldn’t be related to him in that timeline he lived with Peggy. She might not have even been born in that timeline. 2014 Gamora is the one roaming around now. Main MCU timeline Gamora is dead, just like Nat. No idea about the kid with Hawkeye, I need someone to answer that for me too


    About Steve: What? What’re you talking about? What did they need help with? He lived his life for once. You don’t think he deserved that after all he’s done for others?

    Bruce: He explained the evolution well enough, it’s pretty clear what happened. I thought so anyway. But yes, I wish we knew what he was up to now once the final battle was done.

    Nebula is not 2014 Nebula anymore. The timelines separated. She didn’t kill herself, she killed a version of herself that originated from a newly branched alternate reality. Writing about time travel is difficult because it’s impossible...whenever people start to dissect time travel movies, there’s almost always some plot holes. Because it’s physically impossible. Unless there’s a way our primitive human intellects haven’t figured out. As a physics BA holder, I simply like time travel movies if they give me a good time, and this did. To each their own though, obviously

    Agreed about Tony. I hate it, but it’s because I know it’s poetic and beautiful. Perfectly balanced I suppose :[


    If Carol had handled it herself, I’m sure a small section of the internet would’ve been in a complete uproar about it. There are still some folks out there that hate the character simply because she’s a cocky woman with power. Honestly Carol did almost beat Thanos but then he hit her with the power stone and other characters took their shots. But regardless, if she handled it herself, we wouldn’t have the rest of the battle.

    If the 2 week rule is real, then I apologize, I’m a relatively new mod and will adjust accordingly. I’ve never heard of that before though. Also it’s a thread about the most anticipated movie maybe of all time, I think it’s quite unwise for people who haven’t seen it yet to be browsing this thread. It’s one thing to get spoiled by social media comments, and another to get spoiled in a dedicated thread about the movie

    What are your issues with Strange’s use? He had some of the best fights.


    Hulk still seems plenty strong, he clearly gave an assertive warning to Thor to take his hands off him. I just think he doesn’t want to fight. That doesn’t mean he won’t if push comes to shove. I’m more curious of what he’s gonna do from now on

    Sorry to pick your brain about nearly every point. Just good discussion :D 


    You hated the outcome that much? Disagree wholeheartedly man but I get where you’re coming from. The thing is, Feige and the Russos made it clear that they wanted to make sure these movies have real consequences. People always criticized Marvel for not being bold enough to make these sorts of choices, and they did this time. It hurts, bad. And it’s supposed to. But it’s supposed to also show us how much we cared. He saved the Universe, and became the epitome of a hero—a remarkable journey for someone who started out not giving a shit and just wanted to sell weapons for his company!

    But yeah, I think it’s poignantly beautiful that Cap finally settled down after Tony told him to get a life.


    Probably, but RDJ is done. He wanted to move on, and I don’t blame him. It’s time for new characters. Now that Marvel has the X-Men and FF back, we’ll be getting some more good stuff hopefully
     
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  8. Grimlockimus

    Grimlockimus Wot?

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    Had awhile to mull things over, and had some thoughts on that ending.

    -Regarding Steve Rodger's ending and him "abandoning" everyone for his happy life. Based on the movie's rules, changing something in the past doesn't change your future. It instead creates a new branched reality based on what you changed. Rodger's going back and marrying Carter would have done just that.

    In this new reality his actions wouldn't effect his own timeline. So who's to say he didn't help out where he could if events played out the same. And after he lived his full life used the time GPS again to return to his own reality to pass the mantle on.

    It would check out with how the GPS' work too. The New York team was able to return to their own timeline despite being in, and causing, a new reality in which Loki escapes. Same goes for the Morag team and what they did.

    Might not be the case at all but I like to think this is how it played out.
     
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  9. Whisper

    Whisper Could use a cheeseburger right about now

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    I kind of agree with this, always felt like Wanda was one of, if not the strongest avenger. But I remember she was a force to be reckoned with in infinity war. The first encounter she was just kinda caught off guard, but during the battle of wakanda, corvus glaive had to wait until Wanda was out on the field in order to take the mind stone from vision, otherwise he'd be stopped right there. That's how I interpreted her characterization in infinity war at least.

    But yeah, they did good in endgame.
    Really proves that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Thanos shouldn't have pissed this one off ;) 
    Funny, I was actually disappointed because Steve DIDN'T die. I was totally ready for him to sacrifice himself, but instead he just goes and lives another lifetime with Peggy. Doesn't make sense from a time travel aspect, but I'm coping with it now. I thought Tony's send-off was a wonderful wrap-up to a beautiful character arch 11 years in the making
     
  10. TattooedRobot

    TattooedRobot A Very Stable Genius TFW2005 Supporter

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    The Reason Thor and Hulk have had character regressions is simple, they aren’t done with the characters. Steve and Tony are done so they get a send off as perfect characters.
     
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  11. Megatron118

    Megatron118 Excelsior! Moderator

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    Agreed with both of you. Spot on.
     
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  12. Whisper

    Whisper Could use a cheeseburger right about now

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    I'm a tad confused, as I think my understanding of the plot is a little off:
    Wasn't the point of Steve returning the stones to prevent any new time branches from occurring? That was how I interpreted the whole speech between the ancient one and banner, as creating alternate timelines could mean bad news. Returning the stones would prevent that from occurring, which is good, but then what confused me is Steve went back to Peggy. Doesn't that kind of contradict his last mission? I'm just a little confused, hoping to get this cleared up. It's one of the only hangups I have on endgame.
     
  13. TattooedRobot

    TattooedRobot A Very Stable Genius TFW2005 Supporter

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    I don’t think any new timelines are created. Steve is back in our timeline since he was there at the end. He never needed to intervene because he was already there to intervene as his younger self. Loki also didn’t create a different timeline because he had the tesseract in Infinity War when Thanos kills him. So that is how he got it, I think.
     
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  14. Megatron118

    Megatron118 Excelsior! Moderator

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    He probably returned the stones, resolving the timelines, and then spent his life with Peggy in one of the timelines he picked. Then when he felt it was time, he came back to the main timeline
     
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  15. Grimlockimus

    Grimlockimus Wot?

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    I will say though, the one thing that did bother me with the movie was:

    Thor giving up his leadership of New Asgard...only to then try and assert himself as leader of the Guardians.
    The scene of him and Quill going back and forth on this was funny, but felt a bit oddly placed given the scene beThor it.

    Loki had the Tesseract because he stole it from Odin's vault during the ending of Thor: Ragnarok. After Avengers Loki is meant to be locked up in Asgard, not teleporting away with the Tesseract. Due to this, a new reality in which Loki escapes would've been created.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  16. TattooedRobot

    TattooedRobot A Very Stable Genius TFW2005 Supporter

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    There aren’t new timelines. The other versions of themselves can exist at the same time they do throughout the movie, Steve returns all the Stones so it closes them off. He is existing as his older self back in time while also existing being revived from the ice.
     
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  17. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Yup.
    The movie broke its own rules.
     
  18. KA

    KA Well-Known Member

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    Strong disagree on those saying thor and hulk regressed:

    Thors arc is self fulfilment. At the start he is hesitant to succeed odin, in TDW he was self assured and in ragnarok he realize being a ruler is a responsibility for its people. He was finally ready to accept the role of king when IW reset that when he lost everything. Learning revenge doesnt cut it and he goes into denial and by the end he - similar to steve - is ready to live FOR himself (thats why his subplot deals with his mom rather than his dad). I dont think this as a regression, more a next stage of his life.

    While hulk was mostly treated as comic relief we saw hulk at the start having control of hulk but in a bad way for banner (hes always angry) in avengers, in IW that unstable relationship come to the point where hulk wont come out so for endgame we finally see him being comfortable with both aspect of himself.

    Both their stories are not done but they both reach chapters end in endgame.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  19. Nemesis Otaku

    Nemesis Otaku “Part of the journey is the End.”

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  20. Whisper

    Whisper Could use a cheeseburger right about now

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    Ahh okay, so basically he used the quantum realm to come back, and stayed with Peggy in an alternate/false timeline that wouldn't exist for too long? Or am I getting this wrong? If that's the case and he remained hidden, it would make sense. The only thing that bothered me is how old he looked at the end though, so I'm not sure if it could've worked like that. He'd have to stay hidden for an unrealistic amount of time, but maybe that's just me.
    Now that I think of it, I wonder if this is one of those "up to interpretation" endings...
     
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