Artwork of Unreleased POTP of Primal Prime Found

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Fc203, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    But does that preclude Hound from getting a power-up mode that wouldn't be something they could retool from any of the three Leaders we got? And if we assume Hound got a brand new mold other than the three we saw in PotP...the question is who would his repaint be? Because if we bump Primal, they'd have to have had a plan to reuse Hound as someone.
     
  2. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    the fact that trypticon, omega supreme and scorponok are not retools of each other, and wheeljack and spinister dont share tooling with impactor or mirage would indicate that each potential design is intended to be unique/not share tooling with other potential designs on the poll. also, as to a potential hound reuse, all 3 potp leaders that did get released had a black repaint, so logically if hound had won instead of primal he would have gotten a black repaint, especially if you consider that the throne of primes deco is a new deco for optimal optimus' mold (legacy deco being season 3 original and primal prime), so saying a black hound makes no sense would make as much sense as saying a black optimal optimus doesnt make sense
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  3. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    Except they made Wheeljack and Spinister anyway. So the poll doesn't mean we *don't* get molds it just means which molds we get *first.* And I never once argued any of the three titans would be retools of each other. That was absurd from the start. We just picked it early enough in the process that Hasbro could take the three designs they had been looking at and translate it into a figure.

    Because, ultimately, the only change that was needed for two of them was how to integrate the headmaster element. And once they got past TR, the remaining two would just be who they were because the play pattern for Siege and Earthrise only required connectors to battle stations (which they all have) and some pegs to accommodate blast effects.

    Except "black Primal" was sold as his Prime form. The boxed set was presented as the Throne of Primes and sitting atop it was the winner of the poll in his newly formed glory. And from the looks of this pic, something changed that lead them scrapping Primal Prime and going with the two paint schemes they did.

    I'm reminded of the boxart for PotP Inferno. Shown with the chest plate and shoulder tooling for CW Onslaught...which didn't make sense since those aspects weren't on the fire truck mold and would, in fact, be physically impossible on the final CW fire truck mold. So it's clear that artists are given very early design info when doing their artwork.

    You assume that "black repaint" would've been the standard repaint regardless of who won. I argue that's not the case. That Throne Prime was specifically given the paint scheme he did because they were rolling with the idea that a "new Prime" gets an alt mode that is a beefed up version of their old one. Prime and Rodimus both kept their colors, so did Primal. But, again, we did them a favor by picking a character who had a built in repaint besides his "Prime form."
     
  4. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

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    I can't "preclude" anything, but that interpretation seems at odds with Warden's apparent pride in his Hound design. (If it helps, I found the write-up about it I posted way back then. It's not a full transcript, which I never created due to all the background chatter that would have made such difficult, but I do have the original recording somewhere if I really need to go back and verify actual words)

    Hasbro certainly likes to reuse molds whenever they can, but there are still examples of molds that only seem to have been used a single time. "What might have been" is speculation beyond where I care to go.
     
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  5. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    what are you not understanding? i have never said the polls determine which characters we will not get, they determine which character is guaranteed to get a figure in the line for the poll. and both black primal and retail primal were sold as his prime form, the retail release was clearly tagged as the fan vote prime winner in the top corner above his artwork
    OPTIMAL-OPTIMUS-PRIMAL-Transformers-Power-of-the-Primes.jpg

    so again, your assumptions are lacking in evidence and you are also presenting half truths (retail optimal optimus was indeed presented as the fan vote winner and the prime form of optimus primal), the sdcc pack presented primal as the beast king of eukaris (like the fan vote bio, just like how 3 pack impactor is a con like his fan vote bio) complete with crown, throne and scepter of the primes. also if retail primal wasnt his "prime" form then he would not have a name change between the smaller bot (optimus primal) and the larger form (optimal optimus)
    D4D8540F-3DA8-485F-8731-EF1065C2A0F4.png
     
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  6. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    Okay, so what? It's a little sticker. Congrats to Optimus Primal. They could've just as easily slapped that on the SDCC Throne figure if it ended up being someone who was a repaint/retool of one of the figures they were doing to do anyway.
     
  7. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    a. it wasnt a sticker, it was actually printed on his box
    b. you are the one trying to say retail primal was not marketed as his "prime" form, i have provided evidence to the contrary yet you are now moving goal posts
    c. even the bio on the back of retail primal mentions optimus primal being chosen to bear the matrix of leadership to become optimal optimus
    d. the fan vote prime tag is also printed on the back of his box, so it was in multiple places
     
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  8. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    I'm only speculating, but I argue that nothing we see suggests my speculation has any less merit than the idea that Optimal would never have happened *ever* when he was one of three characters who specifically already got an evolution after getting a matrix.

    Also, your quote is a good one, but nothing Warden said about liking Hound would suggest it *has* to be a new mold and not something based on a figure we already saw. I do want to see what they had in mind, regardless, because I argued at the time that Primal (and Star Saber) were some of the more boring options to begin with.

    Something in that interview I want to pull out:
    I read that two ways, but it's worth noting that this tidbit ended up playing out: Elita-1 ended up having both "Elita Infinite" and "Orthia" as her combiner names. And this was as far back as 2018 when we were getting our first look at Siege and didn't even know about Greenlight or Lancer.

    It's an indication Hasbro plans this stuff out *waaaay* in advance. Which further lends itself to the notion that the Prime Poll wasn't picking a third mold...but rather picking the repaint/retool we were going to get at SDCC. (Also, I wouldn't be shocked if we see the WfC line double back around to Brute Modes and Warden eventually takes that opportunity to reuse the Hound Prime design as something else.)

    The fun part would be if/when they did use one of those designs...would they tell us?
     
  9. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    it was picking both the 3rd mold and the sdcc repaint, we would not have gotten a 4th leader mold during potp.
     
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  10. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    Sticker, logo. Whatever, it was barely an acknowledgment and could've just as easily been on the SDCC figure.

    It's not moving the goal posts...if that was his "Prime form" then what the hell was the SDCC Throne figure who was given a staff and crown as well as the 13th Prime? Hell, his card specifically called him out as the newest Matrix bearer.

    ...retail Primal got a little logo.

    Well yeah, because that was the original of Optimal even in the lore. I keep telling you, we did them a favor choosing Primal because the dude not only had a history of carrying the Matrix, but already had a ready made body for it. I was telling people this DURING THE POLL.

    Okay, cool. Throne Prime is literally boxed with the Wheel of Primes, a Scepter of Primes, the 13th Prime, and a Crown of Primes. You're telling me that wasn't going to be the plan if any of the other 8 candidates won? It's clear "Throne of the Primes" was earmarked for that poll winner as an SDCC exclusive retool/repaint of *somebody*.

    You really think *none* of the 8 other options in the poll would've been potentially retools or repaints of the three molds we got? I would be *shocked* if Arcee was anything other than a retooled Rodimus, for example. Which would've bumped Unicronus from the plan and added Primal Prime back into the mix. And since we saw with Optimal that the "pre Prime form" doesn't have to be anything remotely close to their original alt...what's not to say we weren't in for some wild and crazy Prime designs that made interesting use of the Prime/Rodimus/Primal transformation skeleton?

    At *best* you're still making my point for me. If Primal gets bumped, odds are pretty good he gets pushed back into Siege/Earthrise and adapted into that Leader model because he's a ready made candidate. Because all 9 characters had designs and they're not going to just throw those in the garbage.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  11. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    you are literally denying every single piece of evidence against your "theory". there is no evidence to support your "theory", all you can come up with is assumptions. alternatively i have actually provided evidence, both based in logical reasoning and in what we actually got, but feel free to keep denying reality. this "debate" is doing nothing but going in circles
     
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  12. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    It's speculation versus speculation. Your "evidence" is based on trends that don't exist and ignoring trends we've seen. We know our votes don't matter nearly as much as they used to...so I dunno why I'm supposed to believe that we magically voted a brand new mold in to existence when we haven't done anything close to that since Windblade.

    The only thing that would ultimately disprove either argument is getting to see the original plans for those other 8 characters. If none of them are even remotely close to any of the three molds we got nor anything we've seen since...there you go.
     
  13. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty disappointed that we didn't get Primal Prime. Then again, there's a rumour that there's going to more of a focus on Beast Wars in the future, so we may get him then.

    Of course, he may just end up being a Earthrise Apeface repaint.
     
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  14. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    I think at this point it'd be a bigger shot if Hasbro *didn't* repaint the Horrocons as Primal/Megatron. If not for retail, then Selects.
     
  15. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    youre ignoring that retail primal was specifically marketed as the fan vote winner
    youre ignoring that the 3rd mold retail leader shared a mold with the sdcc exclusive
    youre ignoring that each of the 3 leader molds got a repaint
    youre ignoring that every NEW mold fan vote winner has only ever been repainted by hasbro as that same character (if at all) up to this point
    youre ignoring that no NEW mold fan vote winner has ever shared parts with a previous figure
    youre ignoring that siege ultra magnus and shockwave have fundamental engineering differences from power of the primes leaders
    youre ignoring that of the fan vote losers we have gotten, all of them have been new molds
    youre ignoring primals retail bio, which states he is the newest matrix barer


    youre assuming without proof that primal would have been in power of the primes regardless
    this assumption means there would have been a 4th new mold leader, which breaks precedent of 2 new molds in combiner wars and 3 new molds in titans return, or it increases the need from 6 leaders to 8 to allow for a repaint of the 4th mold
    youre assuming that any number of the 8 potential winners were retools of each other

    all im saying is there is more evidence in one camp than the other and your argument fails under logical scrutiny due to lack of evidence and emphasis on assumptions
     
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  16. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    Except we saw Hasbro originally planned a Primal Prime and then decided against it. Potentially because he won the poll and now they had a different repaint they could use. You also assume that literally *none* of the poll options would have been a retool/repaint of existing leader molds thus eliminating the need for one of the three we got.

    This is such a *huge* caveat considering you have to throw out an entire poll winner to make it fit.

    Which is another huge caveat because you're taking something that proves one argument (polls are an illusion of choice) and trying to turn it back around that we're really making a huge difference.

    I'm telling you, the polls are an illusion of choice.
     
  17. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    I actually mentioned that idea on these boards ages back during Titans Return. I'd forgotten all about that. I guess that's probably more likely.

    To be honest, though, I'd prefer a Primal Prime.

    Oh well, at least we know that Hasbro have been thinking about him...
     
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  18. T-Hybrid

    T-Hybrid "See see Seacons!"

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    We can get both. If Hasbro does end up doing a line that plays up beast modes, there's a good chance they could drip into some of the older lines for figures.

    I think more people than would care to admit would love some boxed sets that gave us repaints of existing molds as Primal/Megatron.

    Skullsmasher/Mindwipe. Apeface/Snapdragon. Optimal/Deathsaurus. (because trust me, Deathsaurus is coming and he'll almost certainly get a TM2 Megatron repaint).
     
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  19. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    so you know with 100% certainty that primal prime wasnt an original option as the sdcc exclusive? at least my arguments have tangible evidence, all yours have is maybes
     
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  20. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    Let's see, Deathsaurus means Victory Leo and Star Saber?
    TM2 Megatron means new Cryotek?

    Actually, my first thought was, 'Deathsaurus? Where is he?!'.

    I just hope I don't end up thinking 'This guy's a lot shorter than I remember....'.