Army charges mom who refused deployment

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Cloud Strife, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. butz

    butz slippery when wet

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Posts:
    8,140
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +2,960
    That's just lovely of her mother to bail out at the last minute like that.
     
  2. DeathStorm

    DeathStorm Snoochie Boochies

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Posts:
    2,645
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +1
    Being in the military doesn't mean you can't ever have kids. She had confidence, per her FCP, that her mother would take care of the baby if she ever got deployed. Whether the pregnancy was planned or not, that confidence in her mom drove her to decide she'd have the baby. The mother bailed and the Soldier was left between a rock and a hard place. She didn't have a choice. I have seen cases where a single parent does find a care taker and does end up coming overseas to finish a deployment with their unit. However, those are few and far between.

    Unfortunately there is no "usual" outcome for these. Like Bryan stated, if the Soldier was a discipline case then she may be found at fault. To prove that, however, the leadership has to have documentation to prove she wasn't doing a good job. There's two guesses on this one, after re-reading the article. One, she was still an E-4 after four years. If she were that much of a discipline problem it's probable that she would have been demoted to E-3 at some point. Once that happens you can't be promoted back to E-4 for 18 months, and that's based on good conduct. Of course it's an assumption that the demotion would have occurred - soemtimes it doesn't. The flip side is that she wasn't allowed to leave the military installation before the holidays. Confined to base is usually the result of an action that's pretty serious. The most plausible convergenge of both of these is that she made one big-time mistake to get her confined but that her overall service was satisfactory.

    Yes, there is maternity leave for Soldiers. 90 days after the child is born is considerred medically non-deployable. For single Soldiers, that non-deployable status can be extended, with a waiver, up to 180 days. However, there are also new regulations that state a Soldiers who intentionally gets pregnant to avoid deployment is subject to UCMJ action (ie: punishment). That may be what happenned here. Most "normal" units (defined as non-special operations - like a finance or medical unit as opposed to Special Forces) know a year out that they are a unit of interest to be deployed. Commanders are now required to inform their units of this and the "you can't become a parent" rule kicks in. However, there's still grey areas in this regulation, as there are in most. It's new and will need to be refined after it's put into practice.

    I guess my biggest question is where the father is in all of this. By law he's the primary caretaker should something happen to the Soldier. "Not having a relationship" with the father, as the article states, doesn't mean he can't be responsible by law.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  3. thenatureboywoo

    thenatureboywoo Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Posts:
    8,819
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Likes:
    +2,232
    Call me a douchebag but I think the child deserves to be with it's mother and not being separated for a year.
     
  4. SpencimusPrime

    SpencimusPrime _

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Posts:
    1,707
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +6
    Agreed.
     
  5. Team Jetfire

    Team Jetfire Pop-POP!

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Posts:
    6,213
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +497
    But if she is allowed to bail without punishment, women would have a get-out of-service-free card. It is a big deal to sign up for the armed forces, she should have taken that in to account when she signed up as well as when she had tha baby.
     
  6. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Posts:
    9,017
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +6
    Well, I have a little teeny-tiny smidgen of experience. Just a pinch. :peoples: 

    I can and will assume the soldier was in the wrong--until and unless I'm proven wrong. If that happens, I'll admit it. But if I had a dime for every time I've heard a joe complain that the leadership hated him or her for no reason when there absolutely was a reason, I could retire now instead of finishing my twenty.

    Is it possible that one member of the chain of command is for shit? Sure. Is it possible that every damn member up to what, the damn brigade commander (who would've had to sign off on this) is out to get some nobody private? Maybe...but it ain't damn likely.

    I've done two tours. I'm leaving tomorrow for a short stint in Haiti and I'm looking at another Afghanistan bit late this year or early next. It's been inconvenient and a hassle and dangerous and I never shirked my goddam duty. And while I don't have any children, I've served with plenty of folks that do, and they were responsible enough to ensure they had a plan in place--because that's what they were paid to do.

    You fail to do your job in the real world, you get fired. You fail to do it in the Army, you might catch a charge. That's nothing new. It's not like this is always the reaction--it's uncommon enough that I'm inclined to side with the command until proven otherwise.
     
  7. DeathStorm

    DeathStorm Snoochie Boochies

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Posts:
    2,645
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +1
    No, that's not true. You need to read what I posted above. There are rules now against women getting pregnant to get out of deployments. And they are not discharged just because they get pregnant.

    I'm sounding like a broken record here: if you're in the military, get pregnant, and have faith that your mother will take care of your child should a deployment happen - why wouldn't you have the kid? Being in the military doesn't mean you can't ever have a baby. This Soldier had her contingency plan in place and her mom backed out. Why is that the Soldier's fault?
     
  8. thenatureboywoo

    thenatureboywoo Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Posts:
    8,819
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Likes:
    +2,232
    She signed papers, got pregnant whatever. I set all that other shit off to the side. I am speaking as to the welfare of the child.
     
  9. DeathStorm

    DeathStorm Snoochie Boochies

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Posts:
    2,645
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +1
    And she had a plan in place as well, which her mom didn't live up to. Not the Soldier's fault.
     
  10. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Posts:
    9,017
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +6
    Clearly, we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I'm not buying that her plan was legit. If one of my medics had the same thing happen to them, I'd back 'em. But if I had reason to believe that the mom was never a real option and her FCP was bullshit, I'd be much more inclined to burn her.
     
  11. bradforj

    bradforj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Posts:
    4,449
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +1,144
    Tough call. I say discharge her and retroactively rescind all benefits she received (signing bonuses, tuition assistance, etc). She will not be fulfilling her end of the deal, so why should the tax-payer? Jail time is a bit much, though.
     
  12. DeathStorm

    DeathStorm Snoochie Boochies

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Posts:
    2,645
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +1
    But the mom was an option, she even had the baby for two weeks. She decided she couldn't handle a year of it. Back to the mom being at fault. Besides, how would you know that a FCP was for shit? It's not like you can test it in advance.

    And, just curious, what's your service history? I understand you have some knowledge in this matter but have you ever dealt with UCMJ actions like this directly? Not that it matters either way, I'm just curious about a fellow Soldier - there aren't many of us on this site :) 
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
  13. chrisr291

    chrisr291 Master of the Unknown

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Posts:
    14,880
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +9,368
    Ebay:
    I complete agree with DeathStorm and thenatureboywoo.


    Why do people always say "MONEY MONEY MONEY SHE TOOK IT!!! NOW SHE MUST DO HER TIME HAHAHAHHAA".

    That is bullshit and a super lame excuse. Money or a contract to the US Military is not stronger then the bond a mother makes with their child during the first years of their lives. This isn't a "Mother goes to work and comes back at 5pm" NO! She leaves for what a few months, years? A infant baby is a lot of work, this isn't some 6,7 or 8 year old that can watch themselves. I can understand why her mother backed out. Let that woman stay at home with her baby!
     
  14. DeathStorm

    DeathStorm Snoochie Boochies

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Posts:
    2,645
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +1
    Assuming she used any benefits (don't know how many cooks got enlistment bonuses - none that I know), she would have to repay some if she got a dishonorable discharge. Education benefits contract on a multi-year commitment of good service. You void that and you have to repay.
     
  15. Team Jetfire

    Team Jetfire Pop-POP!

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Posts:
    6,213
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +497
    How much care goes into developing the contingency plan though? Does the military interview the mother or other care giver to ensure it is legit? If so should the mother not be more on the hook?

    And I never meant to say that she should be discharged for being prego, she should have just had the sense to take accountability for her own life and decide weather or not she should have a child while being enlisted in the military.

    How can you set all that stuff to the side? Having kids does not negate you from your resposibilities of being an adult. Yes the kid is the one who will be affected by this, but again something that she should have considered before getting prego.
     
  16. firehawc_69

    firehawc_69 cloppers = ignore list

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Posts:
    10,633
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Likes:
    +34
    This is why I've stayed single. I won't put my family second to a deployment or PCS. Any decision the Air Force makes for me, I can do aptly because it's only myself I have to worry about.

    Military with dependents know better, she needs to be held accountable.
     
  17. DaraRex2.0

    DaraRex2.0 I'd totally eat the leaf

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Posts:
    1,632
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +2
    Military lady that's a cook. Fascinating. I wanna sway with it's more the ladies fault than her mom, though mom's probably the douche for bailing ship. But it was still what's her faces responsibility to contact her superiors and let them know the situation in advance. She kinda disappeared (from what I gathered of the article), and I guess they consider that ditching duties.

    As said before, military is srs buznes. You become more than an adult when you sign up with them, you're a guardian. And I like DeathStorm and Bryan's posts :)  Be safe over in Haiti Bryan :rock 
     
  18. Chaos Muffin

    Chaos Muffin Misadventure Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Posts:
    31,185
    Trophy Points:
    422
    Likes:
    +8,188
    This is one of those unfortunate situations filed under the 'shit happens' category.

    Im disappointed in her for not having a plan B. If you're going to sign, then think it through a little better. She knows her mom better than anyone, that she's the type of person to back out of situations at the last moment.
    She know's her mom's not a very dependable person, so why put so much responsibility on her.

    On the other hand, trying to keep a mother from her baby is like suicide. Unless she's a felon, then I think the Army could a be a bit more flexible with these situations.

    Plus, I would'nt want a mad momma screwing up my mission. My unit bros will be like damn man, where's mah headphones at?

    Then again, it's not fair to other parents in the army with similar problems.
     
  19. CdnShockwave

    CdnShockwave The Prince of Poses TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2002
    Posts:
    10,545
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +10
    "Here's your sammich, sir!"
     
  20. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    7,885
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +9
    This. Its also a more cleaned up version of what I yelled at my TV when I first say this story.


    Yea its shitty that her mother bailed on her last minute, but guess what? Its probably not a good idea to have kids when you're in the military and run the risk of facing life and death situations every day. Fuck that, its never a good idea. And its REALLY a bad idea when you're a single mother.