AOE toys off to slow start. 50% of DOTM pre-release levels.

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by signals3, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    I hear ya, but I don't think TF's are on par with GI Joe.

    Today's social climate alone is more friendly to the sci-fi that comes with giant rock-em sock-em robots, while the military doesn't always enjoy that same level of love. Besides, TF's have had 3 successful films as opposed to Joe's... films...

    Never mind an expanding 3P interest in Transformers that doesn't seem to exist for GI Joe.

    I bring up 3P because of how garage kits kept Star Trek alive for the major fans for Paramount to want to re-visit that franchise after it died in the 60's.

    Don't get me wrong- I have a special place in my heart for Joe and very much want to see a live action TF / Joe crossover, but I just don't think that the 2 can compare.
     
  2. Calabask

    Calabask Waspinator Cultist

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    I'm not about to bite your head off. XD

    But would you argue that those toys inclusion was what made the movie toys larger, the arguement that they'd look smaller next to the Cybertron toys?
     
  3. JT-bob

    JT-bob Autobum

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    "Sales" and "space" are the same thing in this case, retailers order enough product to fill that real estate, but if they're going to cut the real estate in half, then they're also going to cut the orders in half.

    Of course, when 75% of this line is Power Attack figures and One Step Change figures clogging shelves, the reduction in orders of that junk isn't really going to harm anything. But the Power Attack figures already are mixing in with the Generations AOE figures due to card similarities (despite different prices) so there's going to be overlap in Deluxe Generations orders as well.
     
  4. Blot

    Blot Terrorcon Foot Soldier

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    I'm coming into this a little late, but in regard to retailers providing 50% less shelf space to AoE over DotM, I'm surprised its only that much less. (*Anecdotal evidence alert*) When DotM came out, the stores near me had insane amounts of the first wave of stuff, especially Walmart and TRU. it overflowed into multiple aisles and endcaps--it was nuts! The AoE rollout seems much more reasonable.
     
  5. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

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    Movie toys in ROTF were often bigger than the Cybertron toys (like the Cybertron Red Alert Mould) I didn't really think "crikey that's titchy" until I saw Knockout in vehicle mode or FOC Optimus Prime in robot mode and compared him to the WFC version. - It does depend what you display thing near - put them next to Transmetal Cheetor they don't look small - put them next to Armada Wheeljack or Beast Machines Nightslash Cheetor they look tiny.

    I think Crosshairs looks very small indeed this time around and that is even with Prime RID & Beast Hunters toys to compare them too.. I think It's harder to say with Bumblebee the 1st 2 Movie ones were modest size - the HFTD one is very big, the DOTM one is slightly small and the 60's camero one is even smaller. I didn't ever think the Wreckers were small though.
     
  6. MightyMegs

    MightyMegs Well-Known Member

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    This is ridiculous. Do you think customers walk into a store and say, 'Hey, there's only 2 feet of Transformers, not 4 feet... so I'm not going to buy any.'? Sales are down because people aren't buying. If they were buying, they could buy from the 2 ft that's out there. They aren't. I'm not buying because most of it is that 1-step crap... but I'm sure all those kids that Hasbro swears are their biggest customers... I'm sure they'll come around.
     
  7. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    Sure, I just thought we were talking about 2011 :) 

    The reason I get so sarcastic in these threads is because I don't understand why people get so emotional about not wanting to buy things.

    Let's be real here; few, if any of us, are qualified to diagnose or treat financial problems for Hasbro in general or the very, very small faction of its business that is Transformers. And yet many of us will take personal impressions of a few products, combine it with a few anecdotes, and forge a solution that relies on the assumption that there is a direct relationship between toy quality and sales.

    Presumably, if toys appear to be higher-quality, more people (at least more of us) will buy them. But is this a significant effect? It might be. Or it might be small, a rounding error, and not remotely worth the extra materials' cost. We don't have the data to test either hypothesis. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data," and we don't even have very many anecdotes. You also can't go back and say "toys were good in 2009, sales were good in 2009, therefore toy quality drives sales." That's because correlation does not imply causation. Also, those variables aren't very useful (what is a "good toy"?).

    So the thing that makes me joust at windmills is when people make unjustifiable assumptions, and then use them to drive bad analysis. Some guy said that Hasbro's losing money because their new designers use CAD, which is a beautiful example of "not even wrong." Not only have both companies been designing with CAD for ages, but no plausible mechanism has been proposed to link use of CAD with corporate income.

    But what the "stop cheerleading for Hasbro" guys miss sometimes is that just because I compulsively attack what I see as bad reasoning does NOT mean that I'm going out and buying AoE Leaders. They don't look very good and they have no place in my collection. I've sold better figures at a loss. But conversely, I'm not angry about that.

    And it's not just because Ang-Bot does not understand your puny human emotions. As I said, my collecting pretty much dates to 2009. I love a lot of those toys dearly. As someone who started as a movie-specific collector--who enjoyed and became used to toys of high complexity and fair size--I feel like if anyone is entitled to have an emotional reaction to simpler and smaller "movie-style" toys, it ought to be me, and others of my "generation." So I legitimately don't understand why older collectors (who ought to have seen it all by now) and people who AFAIK are barely interested in movie stuff at all are so mad that they don't think THIS movie stuff is up to par.

    Because bellpeppers et al. are right. None of us need a constant diet of retail toys for us to enjoy collecting. Maybe Hasbro makes a few mistakes, loses some money, and gives the property a break (or they just make "kiddie" toys for awhile). How does that hurt any of us? Certainly people who compulsively buy crap will still have plenty of crap to buy from the previous 30 years of continuous production. Hasbro could not release new mainline Transformers for 5 years and I still wouldn't be as angry as many of you are right now, nor would I be likely to sever ties with the awesome community of fans I've met over the years.

    Buy shit you want to buy, don't buy shit you don't want to buy, and don't obsess over things nobody's even made yet. Or if you can't help it, make it yourself.
     
  8. Powerglide1991

    Powerglide1991 Autobot

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    Maybe 'mainly' was to strong a word to use, but there were a hell of a lot of repaints. Hell even some Universe figures made it over (Fracture for example) AoE seems to be the only line using mainly newer molds, with only 2 being previous movie toys (Leader bee and Voyager drift)

    I have no doubt in my mind that the Cybertron/Energon figures being in that line had something to do with the size of the Movie toys. There is no sense releasing gimmicked figures with non gimmicked figures using a completely different design scheme, hence the figures being repainted to look a little more movie like, and the movie toys actually having a gimmick.
     
  9. Powerglide1991

    Powerglide1991 Autobot

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    High Octane Bee is actually slightly taller than the DOTM mold, but has less weight to him, extend his feet all the way on the hinge joint and he is taller and a lot more stable xD
     
  10. IgnikaMarcus

    IgnikaMarcus Well-Known Member

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    What? Star Trek? Died in the 60's? What?
     
  11. Nymesys Prime

    Nymesys Prime It's Finally over Prime..

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    With Hasbro's renewed focus on simpler toys for children, the "traditional" Deluxe, Voyager and Leader Class assortments were explicitly split off under the Generations banner, receiving a much reduced focus in marketing and even being entirely store exclusive in the United Kingdom

    Deluxe

    Wave 1
    #001 High Octane Bumblebee
    #002 Crosshairs
    #003 Dinobot Slug
    #004 Scorn

    Wave 2
    #005 Strafe
    #006 Autobot Drift
    #007 Dinobot Slash

    Future waves
    #00? Bumblebee
    #00? Lockdown
    #00? Snarl

    Voyager

    Wave 1
    #001 Evasion Mode Optimus Prime
    #002 Grimlock

    Wave 2
    #003 Autobot Hound
    #004 Galvatron

    Future waves
    #00? Slog
    #00? Autobot Drift (retool of Dark of the Moon Skyhammer)

    Leader

    Wave 1
    #001 Optimus Prime
    #002 Grimlock

    Wave 2
    #003 Bumblebee (redeco of Dark of the Moon Leader Bumblebee without Mechtech weaponry)

    Exclusives

    Amazon.com
    First Edition Optimus Prime

    Target
    Silver Knight Optimus Prime & Grimlock (Dark of the Moon Deluxe Class and Generations Voyager Class redecoes)
    Silver Knight Optimus Prime (Redeco of Smash & Change Optimus Prime)
    Silver Knight Optimus Prime (Redeco of Titan Hero Optimus Prime)

    Toys"R"Us

    Evolution 2-Packs
    Grimlock (Voyager Class and Mega Class two-pack, includes redeco of Energon Grimlock as Generation 1 Grimlock)
    Dinobot Slug (Deluxe Class and Mini-Con two-pack, includes unchanged Dark of the Moon Triceradon as... G1 Dinobot Slug?)
    Strafe (Deluxe Class and Mini-Con two-pack, includes unchanged Dark of the Moon Rav as... G1 Dinobot Strafe? Swoop? augh headache)
    Bumblebee (Deluxe Class and Legends Class two-pack, includes redeco of Generations Thrilling 30 Bumblebee as Generation 1 Bumblebee)
    Optimus Prime (Voyager Class two-pack, includes redeco of Classics Optimus Prime as G1 Optimus Prime and retool and redeco of Age of Extinction Evasion Mode Optimus Prime)

    Walmart
    Bumblebee vs. Decepticon Stinger with Strafe (Dark of the Moon Cyberverse Legion Bumblebee and Transformers: Prime Cyberverse Legion Knock Out redecoes with unchanged Age of Extinction Deluxe Class Strafe)

    Legion Class
    Bumblebee (Revenge of the Fallen Legends Class Bumblebee redeco)
    Grimlock (Transformers: Prime Cyberverse Legion Rippersnapper redeco)
    Optimus Prime (Revenge of the Fallen Legends Class Optimus Prime redeco)
    Stinger (Transformers: Prime Cyberverse Legion Knock Out redeco)

    Legion Class and Scout Class
    Optimus Prime & Grimlock (Revenge of the Fallen Legends Class Optimus Prime and Energon Cruellock redecoes)
    Dinobot Slug & Stinger (Beast Wars Neo Guiledart and Revenge of the Fallen Legends Class Sideways redecoes)
    Strafe & Bumblebee (Beast Wars Terrorsaur and Revenge of the Fallen Legends Class Bumblebee redecoes)

    Japanese Exclusives
    Silver Roller - redeco of Generations Autobot Roller, available exclusively at ToysЯUs stores.
    Micron Jolt - redeco of Generations Blaze Master, available exclusively at AEON stores.
    Buzzsaw - redeco of Generations Waspinator, available exclusively at Joshin and Bic Camera stores.
    Beatchop - redeco of Generations Chop Shop, available exclusively at Edion, Best Denki, Yamada Denki, Yodobashi Camera, and other stores
     
  12. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    ^ whyyyyyy did you just post a tfwiki page without attribution?
     
  13. Snake_eyes1975

    Snake_eyes1975 Peace through Tyranny!!

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    I always like reading your posts, so don't think I'm trying to argue with you BP.

    I really disagree. The only thing that TF had, over Joe (after 25th) was a live action movie or two.
    The gijoe brand in general was around longer, and was more identified by the public.
    ONLY when Joe went on hiatus, did it have a massive struggle to gain ground again. The most excellent 25th line seen a massive resurgence with the Joe brand.
    SO MUCH SO...that hasbro planned a live action movie (roc) from the success. The only problem, is the public identified with the 25th brand, and NOT the movie crap. After ROC, the line took a nose dive, because it went sci fi. When they went back to basics with the poc line those flew off the shelves.
    Now were back to the end of the line retaliation 25th style 80s figures..and people will shank another for a night viper.

    I REJECT this BULLSHIT attitude that gijoe and transformers cannot be set in the 80s. I think fans and the new generation would LOVE to see movies about that time..just like I watched "dazed and confused" to see how high school was in the 70's

    Also..I do not for one second buy into this "anti military toys" BULLSHIT. I work at tru pt time and we sell a TON of the true heros line, always get questions about soldier outfits..toy guns (is this all you have?) And if your old enough to remember, there was a massive..MASSIVE anti military toy campaign right in the prime of ARAH in the 80s. It didn't phase it one bit.
    Only when Joe went "battle corps" and got away from military colors and added neon BULLSHIT did the line die.

    So in my opinion..its very relevant. If TF toys go on hiatus..you all watch...just like gijoe, that was MORE successful at times than TF, had a bigger fan base, better name recognition, the TF toy line will die...relegated to "club" purchases online of dumbass repaints. You guys want hiatus? THAT'S what you will get.

    I don't think this "down 50%" thing is anything..everytime there is ANY news story here about hasbro possibly losing a penny fans scream "SEEEEEEE I TOLD YOU YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE MADE ALL THOSE BEES" or " SEEEEEE you should have made the toys better"

    99% of these people have NO idea what it takes for hasbro to design and put this product on shelves..try to appeal to us...try to get kids buying...they have a SERIOUSLY hard job in this time and economy.

    I'm going to bet, when this movie launches...the AOE line will surpass corporate expectations...and all the people banging on hasbro will never say "wow..I was wrong" or be called out..they will just wait for the next "% down" news story.
     
  14. merphul

    merphul Well-Known Member

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    As much as I like what is (for me at least) a tongue in cheek debate about how Hasbro is silly. The fact is the TF toys are just a small slice of their pie, and based on a groundless guess, I would venture that they're making enough money from the movies that toys are getting a smaller and smaller focus (not necessarily a minority focus, but smaller and smaller). They're obviously trying to do what Marvel did and become an all in one entertainment company with associated products, rather than being purely a toy company. Besides 4 TF movies, they did the GI Joe movies, Battleship(still WTF? for me) with some neato (insane?) stuff on the way like Candyland, Monopoly and Hungry Hungry Hippos movies potentially coming down the pipe. Not to mention all the cartoons they still produce.

    Simply put, from a high coporate view, they probably don't give a crap about toys the way they might have used to. And if they don't devote the talent or the resources, the products will eventually (have already?) start to suffer. But they're making money from other sources, so at a certain level of management/decision making, it just doesn't matter as much. Given the shift in focus, this is probably the pattern of the future, where older, more demanding customers will have to sift though the chaff to get the wheat. As stated over and over I (like almost all of you) am not in a position to analyze/predict what is going on with Hasbro's finances, but it's fair for us to say that there's a change in the wind.

    Is it unfair to debate movie product shelfspace/sales ahead of the release? oh yeah, but we're always looking for the signs that TF has been ruined forever. But given how it's a cash cow for Hasbro, this thing will live on and continue to change, sometimes evolving into something we would consider "better", sometimes mutating into a hideous travesty that we'll point to as a sign of the end of days.

    All that aside, there are very legitimate points out there about figure fatigue (how many versions of OP/BB does an average kid/collector need/want) and about the compromises made and resources diverted for simpler and gimmicky toys. But it's not about to bring down Hasbro, even if the whole AOE line tanks. The only company that I see where their own self assured self delusion makes their next move completely unfathomable is Nintendo. Cuz those guys really don't seem to have a clue what to do next to turn the books around. (easy answer, more SSB/Pokemon and Nintendoland MMORPG). Please don't start debating Nintendo, it's just a counter-example...

    I know that my purchasing habits have changed. Other than the occasional voyager that I feel is excellent, I prefer to spend my money on MP's and good 3P stuff. Not to sound sanctimonious, but as an adult, even spending a relatively small amount of money on what seems to me a so-so legend or delux doesn't seem like good value/sensible. But I know that people like me aren't keeping Hasbro's coffers full. So I just take the good with the bad and hope that the characters I'm intersted in get a decent toy this run.

    in retrospect, I'm not really sure what I just wrote, but that happens a lot to me... TL;DR
     
  15. signals3

    signals3 Frightfully Important

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    How about some doubt. The exclusives wal-mart released, like cannonball etc were ment for Universe, wal-mart wanted more movie toys, so that's what they got. Toys from previous lines brought into a current line are usually done to either bulk up the line, or for retailer exclusives. Look at the Beast Wars toys brought into armada...it was selling well, so they bulked up the line with so re-deco's. it's a cost effective way to increase the variety and size of a givin line. Neat huh? What I mean is, I don't think, in my humble opinion, and that's what it is, an opinion...just like every single other post in this thread, is that past figures would have had no affect on the sizes of the movie toys.
     
  16. NotFastEnuff

    NotFastEnuff I'm a smartass...

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    Lets see. Poor sales have NOTHING to do with the price of deluxes being $15 each. Deluxes are smaller. They toys aren't anything to write home about. Oh, and did I mention they're SMALLER AND MORE EXPENSIVE!?! Money is tight for a LOT of people. Frivolous spending is at a minimum. SO, lets jack up prices, make 'em small, then wonder why they don't sell.
     
  17. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Wait a minute....why are we worried about this?
     
  18. Powerglide1991

    Powerglide1991 Autobot

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    Maybe you are right, didn't even think of the BW figures in Armada. Goes to show what i know xD
     
  19. Powerglide1991

    Powerglide1991 Autobot

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    Because at the mere whisper of bad news from Hasbro, or related to Hasbro there are 3 types of people

    The people who want Hasbro to brick.

    The people who are worried Hasbro will brick

    And the people like me, you and a few others who know that even if this line does tank, Hasbro will completely rethink there strategy and get right back into the game.

    But lets face it, even if the toys don't do to well, the movie itself and the other merchandise will more than make up for it.
     
  20. signals3

    signals3 Frightfully Important

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    We're good...this is supposed to be a fun thing, right?