Anyone else hoping this series flops hard

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by Sky Shark, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. Sky Shark

    Sky Shark Well-Known Member

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    I can ignore the series and I probably will however for me and anyone else who doesn't like this show we're SOL on a Transformer series for anywhere from 1 year to 3 years not even mentioning the down time between series and the next movie causing yet more of a break.

    So honestly for me the faster the series is off the air the better because that means the next one won't too far away and likely will be a fresh start compared to the continuation that is RID.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  2. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    Agreed.

    Prime's problem was it kept on acting like something super serious was going to happen all the time and the status quo would be forever changed...but no matter how many times it toed the point of no return, only at the season endings did it ever cross that point, only to immediately jump back and resolve everything in the favor of the good guys. Everything it built up to ultimately fell flat - Nemesis Prime literally being indirectly defeated by the semi-overweight government guy willingly getting his ass kicked as a distraction is hilariously pathetic - and they just couldn't let the good guys ever have a chance at losing. Or letting Megatron have a good idea for once and not instantly squander everything thrown into his lap (like Silasdown - there truly is no conceivable reason why Megatron would throw away what was invaluable insight into how to conquer the human race all because of a temper tantrum over something Silas couldn't possibly have predicted, much less prevented.)

    With RID, it's certainly not the best cartoon, but where the problem lays in my opinion is that we keep getting our ideas of what we like and what children's television should optimally be like confused to being seen as one and the same. Prime is arguably judgeable as just bad because the super-serious plot mood that kept sabatoging itself meant the plot never really went anywhere, and with it the character development because when the bad guys have more down-time moments that show they have hobbies and things they just like doing, whereas the best the good guys got was throwing a metal ball around and labeling it "training," something is wrong.

    Yes, RID doesn't have great plot depth so far, but for a kids show and the low standard set by Prime, characterization is far more developed and really the heart of a show is mainly watching how characters interact and play off each other as they drive the plot. RID has no problem with this, so while I'll wait to see how it maintains that, so far it's already more watchable than Prime was after the first season.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Tigran

    Tigran Well-Known Member

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    Thank your SOL...

    And guess what.. Despite the common belief, all opinions are not equal, and you have not substantially explained your opinion without falsehoods, thereby making your opinion invalid to most of us, and most likely to the people like Hasbro who are in charge.
     
  4. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    Serious question.

    Where does "its full of stars" come from?
     
  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Couldn't have said it better myself, on both points.

    I knew Prime was in trouble when Megatron returned. For starters, after being out for so long, it turns out Megs was literally just out-cold, having the most shallow and uninsightful dream of killing Optimus time and again. That alone is an incredibly low-brow idea for a villain fantasy. Then he escapes his coma not through his own means or struggles like, say, how TFA Megatron manipulated others into restoring him. Prime Megs just happened to have Bumblebee go into his head (itself spurred on by totally random events) and then go into Bumblebee's mind. And when Megatron comes back, is it an amazing display of reconstitution or an explosive entrance before reasserting himself and kickign ass? Nope, he walks off, injures (not kills) Starscream. Then stands around for episodes on end, talking about some "grand plan" while a bunch of plot points sort of come up only to be dropped for an out-of-nowhere season finale.

    That really sums up Prime's problem in a nutshell: a flash in the pan. All flash, no substance. It put dramatic imagery and references above true plto developement.

    RID, at the very least, isn't going this route. As you said, it's very focused on character interaction over grand stands, legends, and prophecies. It feels like what Beast Wars was: a small group of bickering misfits stranded on Earth fighting a bunch of colourful crooks. The formula works at least, even if the trappings and fine tuning lack, those can at least improve over time.

    2001 reference, because what Kickback said was profound.
     
  6. Anti Theon

    Anti Theon Well-Known Member

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    Just 2001 may leave him even more confused!

    2001 A Space Odyssey
    , a Stanley Kubrick film based on a story by hard science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke.

    At the end of the film, David Bowman, sole survivor of the mission, leaves the crippled Discovery and somehow enters a massive Monolith orbiting Jupiter. The last transmission received on earth is "My God! It's full of stars!"
     
  7. GWolfv2

    GWolfv2 Deathsaurus - A name you can trust for peace

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    I must be the only sci-fi nerd whose never seen that
     
  8. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    Do I like the new RiD show? No. I'm tired of Bumblebee (and yes, I realize how hypocritical it sounds to follow that up with "I want Optimus back"). The painted style doesn't look right to me, and some of the human character models seem more robotic in their movements then the actual robots. There doesn't seem to be anything to the human characters beyond "we had to have a few" and the Autobots are stuck in mostly stereotypical rolls that grew old before the opening two-parter had ended.
    In short? While there were a few bits about this show that I liked it wasn't my cup of tea and I'll be ignoring it completely from here on out.

    Does that mean I want it to fail? HELL NO! Like the live action films success here brings in more money. Which means means the brand as a whole, not just the RiD part of it, will grow and prosper. Maybe a super successful RiD show and toyline brings in more money to stretch Combiner Wars out? Or means more Generations in general? Actively rooting for a part of the franchise to fail is self-defeating. I know I won't be watching RiD but so what? I still have the MTMTE comic series and Generations. I can afford to sit a tv show out while hoping it does well enough for the good of the brand overall.
     
  9. Underwear

    Underwear Banned

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    Good attitude sir. :thumbs2: 
     
  10. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    For me, the first real sign was how they played the Unicron card so early, then never mentioned it at all until the movie where suddenly he's relevant because some hilariously contrived cosmic bullshit. Oh, yeah, and then later when in Flying Mind the writers were unmoving on their intentions of the sentient ship not being Trypticon.

    Despite the fact that in FOC - which was specifically altered to be more in continuity with the show - it's literally the entire point of a mission to force Trypticon into becoming the Nemesis.

    What that showed is that the writers didn't give a damn about the characters, all they did was exist to serve the plot. Which, suitably enough, is covered in your next line:

    This, if nothing else, is exactly why Prime failed as a cartoon. Everything was focused on making the various aspects of a grandiose plot the focus, not the actual characters. Relics? Aside from the forge, the sword, and maybe some third thing I don't remember, literally all of them were not legitimate relics but crap stolen out of Decepticon Tech R&D lockers. Also, the main characters never had serious issues with each other, they were simply too cohesive with each other for any worthwhile conflicts. But this way, they could never possibly fail to work together either. Because then the plot would derail like a poorly DM'd DnD game.

    I'd also say MTMTE's Lost Light crew is very much this, if they ever stopped in the first place.
     
  11. autobotsrollout

    autobotsrollout Well-Known Member

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    why not also give us an adult swim anime type transformers? To go along with the other transformers shows. Give us a story thats more dark and gritty and start from the beginning and tell a story of how the war started. Then change the shows name every 2 seasons and follow a different part of the timeline in the same universe. Change it from the comics so we don't know exactly whats going to happen

    If you put thought into it and do it well for the adult fans, we'll buy the toys to the point the show can keep going. If the violence and deaths in the movies don't scare the hell out of kids then even if they stay up late to watch adult swim, the transformers anime wouldnt do any worse.
     
  12. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Yup. It reminds me of how ever since TF1, fans have been talking about Unicron in the TF movies, despite the fact that there's never once been any build-up. (not that it'd matter)

    Unicron is an easy out for drama. He's just a big monster. Incredibly big. But devoid of little substance, again mirroring Prime. He's the villain you throw in when you can't think fo something more nuanced or sophisticated, which is really what he was invented as.

    Funny how the shows are directly reflected by their visual styles:

    Prime may have been pretty CGI scenes and characters, but it was that same CGI that limited the world to being very empty and lifeless. They sacrificed a full world and potential characters for pretty pictures. Likewise the models may be technically high-quality, but the designs are very samey and monotone in colour, reflecting the very monotone personalities. There was usually only one note the charatcers, just as there was usually about one colour to their designs.

    RID is more colourful, and has reduced it's CGI in order to have more characters, reflecting how it's backing down from grand-stands and "epic" imagery for more personality-focus. Though the charatcers remain one-note and one-colour like Prime, the wacky 'Con designs reflect the intent for more colourful characters. The brighter world and more humans makes it feel like a populated universe rather than a dead and empty one.

    And very, very few of them amounted to anything. When the Autobots got a relic they locked it away in a vault. They almost never served an actual plot purpose. And when the scavenger hunt switched from trinkets to bones, likewise the Predacon experiments yeilded nothing.

    Yet in Episode six of RID when they found the "Decepticon Hunter" (stupid name but whatever) I was not only shocked that it was merely retrieved offscreen at the beginning, but that it was just a fancy weapon and not a WMD. It's the exact oppsite of one of Prime's biggest criticisms.

    The biggest bullshit Prime ever pulled was when Arcee called Bumblebee "family."

    That was not a family. I can't count a single time they ever seriously disagreed. Family's argue, they fight, they get mean and disagree, even when they're all friends and love each other. It's what comes natural when you put different personalities together. RID has the seeds of that with the dysfunction among inexperienced individuals. They already feel like a family despite all having just recently met.

    Prime never had them disagree, except for Arcee constantly causing trouble because of her contrived vengeance, and yet nobody ever chewed her out for it. It's like she was the Cheetor of "Team prime" (also a stupid name) except not only did Cheetor's insecurities and youthful drive make his disobedience more understandable, but he frequently got in shit for it, and more importantly, he grew out of it. Arcee's personality just sort of resolved itself once Airachnid was defeated, which ran quite the contrary to the whole message of vengeance as a poison. (or how she had the audacity to tell Bumblebee to ignore the want for revenge when his friend was hurt)

    By contrast, RID has several opportunities few conflict and development. Sideswipe being a tempermental slacker is fairly archtypical, but a proven archtype. Strongarm being all about rules and reg is already beign explored. Grimlock's a Decepticon and quite clearly doesn't fit in. And Bumblebee, well, he actually has personality this time, but he's very much a similar character to TFA Optimus, and he was an amazing Autobot Leader character.

    This is also true.


    Because that's expensive, and adult cartoons that aren't parodies are not only exceedingly rare and often doomed to fail these days, but the adult fanbase of Transformers is not large enough to support that. Transformers is a kid's brand. Simply having adult fans does not change that.

    Besides, we already have exactly that which you describe in the current comics. Read them. They're genuinely mature and intelligent, not just superficial "Dark unt gritty" stuff masquerading as deep and adult.
     
  13. AoE

    AoE OUR WORLDS ARE IN DANGER

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    RID's the freshest start we've had in a while. No version of Megatron, no Prime character in charge of everyone, actuals humans and decepticons compared to the last show, beasts all around, less sports cars all around, etc.
     
  14. ericepy

    ericepy Well-Known Member

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    if your a fan of transformers, you should be hoping it does well. It would only help the whole brand. if it flops it will only hurt the brand. ive watched the 6 or 7 episodes so far, and i'm enjoying it and my kids like it.
     
  15. Ssargon

    Ssargon He's... so... wolfy~

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    Sure hope it does well. I love this franchise, hell if its popularity explodes I'd be ecstatic, don't see enough TF love around...
     
  16. Sky Shark

    Sky Shark Well-Known Member

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    By default its not because its a continuation on Prime's continuity. Its not a fresh start at all. Also while I might be a fan of transformers I don't want to hope it to do well Ericepy. Just because your a fan of something doesn't mean you have blindly hope that everything does well. That's like telling DBZ fans to hope GT did well.
     
  17. Starscreamownz

    Starscreamownz Air Commander

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    I was bull headed in the face of this but my attitude has softened. The art is actually pretty good compared to what I was expecting. I'd rather the humans were drawn 2D rather than CGI'd but what can you do. I liked Prime but this does look like a fresh start and not just trying to hit all the right points like Prime did so often. Hopefully they don't mess it up somehow.
     
  18. Underwear

    Underwear Banned

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    Well let me paraphrase Kickback's quote for you..

     
  19. Kraken

    Kraken Is a vegiesaurus, Lex. Veteran

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    Even if I didn't like RID (which for the record, so far I do, rather a lot) I still wouldn't hope it failed. I didn't like Prime, but at no point did I start decrying 'OMG, can't this thing just fail and begone already!!!' because that would be a very selfish thing to do and I realise that the world doesn't revolve around me and what I want. I just didn't watch it, and waited patiently for the next thing to come around in the hope that I'd like that.

    Which I do. Whaddya know, the universe must love me or something!
     
  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    But that's the beauty of it: nothing fucking happened in Prime! Ok, yeah, Prime "died" but he's obviously doing the Obi-Wan Kenobi schtick here so he's still around, and there's barely any other indication that this is in the same continuity - which, amazingly enough, means RID is the first instance of a branching continuity in Aligned Continuity as it was promoted to do. It shares some similarities with Prime, but it doesn't necessarily follow exactly on the heels of it.

    Please, explain how hoping the series that's going to keep this franchise alive does well has anything to do with asking Dragonball fans to hope that a series that's already run its course will "do" well.