I don't know about that. If more retailers had gotten stuck with unsold books (esp the large trailers) and customers refusing to support this idiotic idea then retailers would quickly voice their displeasure, and they're definitely the one source Marvel will listen too and not dismiss. However, BND is still being ordered heavily cause of the initial boost and despite reader's "bitching". You notice the San Diego retailer complain about readers dropping the book since OMD, but only of them complaining about the continuity issue. As long as readers continue to support this drivel Marvel is not going to fix it.


Of course, its also because Amazing being tri-monthly, but their move to that form really shows just how much they were afraid of OMD being poorly received. Obviously Amazing would continue to have decent sales even if BND sucked. Fans would drop the other two will keeping Amazing, but now readers and esp long term readers have three times the Amazing. I have to give Marvel credit for coming up with the idea. It was a genius idea for boasting and keeping sales for those other two spidey titles.

 

I haeva feeling that's what JMS was going to do. he said he had plans to wrap everything up but was not allowed. He even was going to do something with the Sins Past arc. I would have loved to see JMS's real wrap-up.

 

If Mephisto had sneaked back in time and changed an event that caused a divergent timeline then I could see this happening.
However, that would make certain events "unhappen" and Marvel doesn't want to admit that anything "unhappened".

Instead the official word is all of it happened and no one remembers.

So, Mephisto finally gathers enough power to alter the minds of every person on planet Earth. This includes those who should be immune to such things like Dr. Strange whose magic should protect him, and Charles Xavier who should suddenly just sense an "empty spot" in everyone's memory, and general genius-types like Reed Richards and Doctor Doom.
What about that Layla chick from House of M? Shouldn't she wake up one morning and go "Spider-man should be married!"?

Not only did Mephisto do all of that memory erasing, but he also erased every photograph, newsapaper report, news broadcast and internet account of Peter Parker's very public unmasking as Spider-man.

So, Mephisto gains enough power to do all of that and how does he use it?
He uses it to enable Peter Parker to go out on dates.
Awesome!
Marvel is right. This is very close to the core of the character.
Stan Lee and Steve Ditko couldn't do it any better.

 

Nothing says superhero like having Peter cheat on his wife (even if he doesn't realize he is doing it.). Way to go Marvel, glad I stopped reading their books years ago.

 

What about the Watchers? Does Mephisto have power over them too?

 

Don't suppose anybody here listens to the monthly podcast put out by the Spider-Man Crawlspace (spidermancrawlspace.com). I ran into it on iTunes and it's really worth downloading if you're a Spidey fan. They've been getting big interviews lately - the last one being Spidey editor Steve Wacker. He revealed some information that is helpful.

1. They plan story arcs months in advance. I think he said they have Spidey plotted out to next year.

2. They've been planning to somehow "erase" the marriage for awhile now. This wasn't a lark. A vocal group at Marvel (including EIC Joe Quesada) felt that the marriage was hurting the character. (Many fans disagree, but....) Mr. Wacker said that the Spidey creative team has been discussing all of the continuity issues that OMD brings up. He also said that the fans haven't brought up any issues that they didn't already know about. (He wasn't being arrogant about it - just stating that yeah, they've thought this through.) Mr. Wacker also said that they've gotten a lot more positive fan mail than negative in regards to BND.

3. The consolidation of the Spider-titles into a three-times-monthly Amazing Spider-Man comic wasn't related to OMD or BND. The other Spidey titles just never sold as well as Amazing - and they were written in such a fashion that one could usually skip everything but Amazing and still be "in the loop" anyway. That's why they did the consolidation.

4. Yeah, Marvel has found that events sell comics. While on the one hand, I can see how it's "gimmicky," on the other hand - A. if it works, do it, and B. events play to Marvel's strengths. The Marvel 616 universe is the biggest and longest-running fictional continuity in the history of literature, I believe. (I think there has been research on this, but I don't know where it is.) 616 also has the most complex social network in literature (again, I think this has been established by research, but don't know where). (Sorry, I file facts away in my head.) It makes sense that things would be interconnected. In fact, one might say that it's illogical that the Fantastic Four would be fighting off a global threat and no other superhero would try to help or be affected by the situation.

5. Dan Slott's attempt to defuse the anti-fanboy remark of one of his colleagues doesn't surprise me. Joe Quesada himself made the mistake of dismissing the fans, and he got ravaged for it. (A number of people at the Crawlspace started to refer to Quesada as "Joephisto" because of OMD/BND and his callous "you're taking it too seriously" remarks.)

All that said: Brand New Day has turned me off of Spidey too. It just hurts my brain. It doesn't seem like Marvel knows where Spidey belongs in the Marvel Universe. One minute he's low on the totem pole, the next minute he's considered to be one of the most powerful superhumans on the planet, and the next he's a moderately-powerful loser again. During the final battle in Civil War he knocks out two or three Thunderbolts and Reed Richards in one swift move. And yet he can't seem to fight ninjas when the New Avengers go to Japan to rescue Echo just a short time later (even before his power upgrades from The Other disappeared).

I just don't know anymore, really...during the interview with the Crawlspace panel, Mr. Wacker made it pretty clear (though not in a mean way) that they really don't think about the fans while writing stories - they "just work to write the best stories they can." In other words, people can complain until they're blue in the face, but they're going to keep on going.

 

Which sucks huge donkey balls.

 

Oh yeah, that's a good point. I find it hard to believe that he could have control over the Watchers and they would forget everything that happened.

 

Man, all this makes me happy I only read Ult. Spidey (only regular Marvel book I read at all). Guess I have a good 10-15 more years before they mess that one up  

 

Wait I've got it Spider-man is in an alternate reality and the spider man in new avengers is a skrull!! Yeah like that would actually happen.

 

Not surprising at all, though they have mentioned in the past how things can suddenly change in short periods of times.

Joe has been extremely vocal from the very start of his EIC reign. Of course, if what he is saying about having 'thought it through' is true, then why not just address fans concerns from the beginning instead of 'Its Magic'. Readers don't mind new directions on a character even controversial directions, but don't talk down to us.

At least he is admitting that this just a crafty way to get the other two titles sales figures up. This is going to be a trend for a lot of titles in the next few years.

Yeah gimmicks sell, but they also almost ruined the market in the 90s. Marvel should remember that because comics are a dying medium. They can either keep up this variant cover mega-crossover event trend that will eventually destroy comics, or they can return to telling great stories that make the readers want to keep coming back month after month thereby creating lifetime readers.

Though I think DC has a little bit more of an edge in the longest-running fictional continuity department. DC certainly is the biggest, but they tend to erase most of their continuity from the Silver Age. Marvel has done a better job of hanging on to most of it.

I think Marvel would start taking us "too seriously" if we quit buying their product. Frankly, if it weren't for Uncanny, Ultimate Spidey, and Captain America I'd have dropped Marvel a long time ago.

While I can understand that these guys are doing the best they can, these guys are creating products for leisure consumption. I'm not going to read Spider-man for the character only if the writing is sucks. I'll take my money I could be spending on Marvel products elsewhere. It may hurt my LCS and its owner who is a very close friend of mine, but I refuse to waste money on bullshit that is written more by editors with some lame agenda than the writers. I am more than happy to go and help make some other multi-national
corporation even richer.

I really hate to sound like I hate comics when five years ago I was praising both Marvel and DC for making some of the best written titles since the Silver Age. Its amazing how quickly things can change.

 

I can dig what you're saying to some extent on gimmicks and crossovers - but "dying medium" I don't necessarily agree with. The death of the comic book has been talked about for decades and it still hasn't happened. They may not be as popular as they were - but just like how TV didn't kill radio, new media aren't necessarily going to kill the old.

Again, I don't have a source on this...but as I recall, while a couple of DC's characters are older (Superman June 1938, Batman May 1939) the "Marvel Universe" is thought to have started with Namor, the Human Torch, and Captain America (1939, 1939, and 1941). Further, my understanding is that the DC universe has been rebooted a couple of times; Marvel has used retcons now and again, but never a total wipe.

Theoretically, you're correct - but boycotts never seem to work anymore. A recent boycott of eBay by sellers didn't even cause a blip.

 

Yeah, I don't mean to sound like comics are just gonna die out in the next few years, but the signs are there that first they'll eventually get rid of the single issue formal for graphic novels then one day who knows. If the medium is already going back to tactics that nearly killed the industry once, it really shows how dependent they are on the quick sales boost to keep them in the day-to-day operations.

Though I don't think the issue is any new media replacing comics now. Comics just aren't getting enough new young readers. Honestly, I can't remember the last I've seen a kid in comic shop that wasn't either buying Yu-gi-oh (sp?) cards or sports cards. I see them looking at trades (mostly anime), but never single issues when they are to be found. So, if new readers are few and far between, and us old readers are chased away, eventually only the diehard faithful will remain, and they aren't enough to justify an entire industry. The movies certainly aren't binging in reader either.

Well, the Justice Society is generally credited with having created the shared continuity/Universe idea in 1940. And wile true that DC Universe has been rebooted for certain characters, that original continuity is still pretty much intact...its been cleaned up, but intact. Marvel just does a better job of forgetting about filler issues and only remembering the great concepts and events (i.e. formation of Avengers, Captain America, Knee-Skrull War). Though to my knowledge, DC has never done a total wipe either. The Silver Age heroes were later revealed from Earth-1 than being a complete reboot, COIE merged the multiple Earths but retained the heroes' core historys, and ZH...well thats still being worked out lol.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges when looking at comic book sales to ebay auctions. Ebay auctions number in the what millions, and how many sellers actually boycotted creating auctions? From the looks of it not that many, but comic sales are ridiculously low. If the diehard readers that continue to support the tripe could just go without their precious books for a couple of months the impact would be felt. Maybe not at first by Marvel, but certainly the retailers in a short period of time. When the retailers pockets start hurting then consumers' voice will be heard. Though I hate that idea of consumer is powerless so we might as well just continue to buy crap and accept their bullshit excuses. Just look at the monthly numbers of comics being sold, the companies are dependent on us for single sales. Its a pretty sad state for the industry when 250,000 copies sold (and usually with a variant cover or two thrown in) are considered a mega hit.

 

They will never get rid of the single issue format. I don't think the single issue is suffering as much as the graphic novel is growing.

 

I hope not, but you never know. In twenty years we could have a trade every six months replacing six monthly issues. For titles selling in the thirties now in twenty years they'll be in the fifteens so it could make sense.