Alien or Machine?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Tigertrack, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. Paxtin

    Paxtin ...

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    I can get what you are saying, but all that considered, that's still not much of a justified complaint against the character design so much as it is the writing.
    I don't agree that if a character doesn't get much screen time to develop, then it needs to look like something more "familiar". If anything that's more of a reason to do something more inspired with the character's visual design.
     
  2. ashion

    ashion Well-Known Member

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    I kinda go for both for different reasons though i don't consider them 'organic' in the movies. They look like ALIEN robots that are sentient and alive in ways that can be analogies to organic life, just a different take on it.

    The whole 'bleeding' and such in RoTF wasn't new... they've been 'bleeding' when badly injured/had a limb removed since the Marvel comics. Can't remember the issue but there was one large panel i remember with Prowl standing there after getting the crap kicked out of him with one arm missing and a dark fluid dribbling from what was left hanging from his shoulder like blood would flow from a massive wound. Was kinda creepy first time i saw it, but they have done it a lot since in the comics, even the ones G1 styled.

    That's my two bits *wanders back into the shadows*
     
  3. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I know this is going to seem a little weird but I think Animated might have been the most inspired visually of all the series we have gotten.

    G1 was rather random because there was this great big pile of toys and someone had to set there and go okay this one is a good guy and this one is going to be a bad guy. Just sort of the luck of the draw to if you were Autobot or Decepticon and there wasn't a very unified look.

    The movies once again not a very unified look. Some characters look rather human, some look like someone made love to a unicycle, and some had a look that didn't seem to have any discernible reason beyond maybe you can get some really good weed in California.

    But Animated it's like someone actually sat down and thought it all out as what if Cybertron had regions like Earth does. Some places are known for really big tall people and some regions are know for smaller shorter people. Thus when Bulkhead and Bumblebee met there was the feeling big bots come from where Bulkhead lived while Bumblebee came from a region of smaller bots. There even seems to have been some thought out reasoning to Decepticons are bigger and Autobots are smaller.

    I don't know I guess I'm just weird in that I want there to be some reason why characters look like they do instead of it just being the whim of the artist on that day. Just seems like any living thing is going to have evolutionary pressure on it to look that way rather than just because it might look cool.
     
  4. Kungfu Dinobot

    Kungfu Dinobot Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and to add to your point, Paxtin:


    The decepticons in TF:A are, like in the movies, designed to be less relatable than the Autobots. I mean, compare Lugnut (five eyes, pincers) ,Shockwave (one eye, claws), Waspinator (four arms)and Blackarachnia (four eyes, still hot, though) to just about any autobot and you'll see what I mean.
     
  5. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    I like a mix, basically mechs but organic inspired mechs. Classics to generations type look.
     
  6. jgoss

    jgoss transformers fan 4 life

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    i like both it doesn't matter. the movie version is totally kick ass
     
  7. IACON

    IACON "That's Vector Sigma?" TFW2005 Supporter

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    Machines. The alien look doesn't do them any justice and make them look like pile-up of parts.
     
  8. Paxtin

    Paxtin ...

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    I don't know if I'd call it weird, but it does seem like personal bias. Just like someone who can look at TFA and say the designs just look like childish crap.

    When I look at TFA designs and movie designs, artisticly I generally see the same thing, in that an artist put thought and creativity into them.
    The reasons you gave for the TFA character designs can just as easily be put to the movie ones, in that Cybertronians are a physically diverse culture of robots. The only real difference is the visual style. One's a hand drawn cartoon, the other are CGI machines.
    Also the whole thing of a unified look is a bad idea, to me. It just seems like a limiting concept in creativity.

    I think you just personally don't like the movie designs. And you know what, that's fine. They're not your cup of tea. But that doesn't really mean that they're bad designs. Just differnt.
    And yes, I know the whole iconic argument, especially with Starscream. And I can respect that, and even agree to a degree. But some people, like myself, still like move Screamer. Just like in general, not a bad design, just different.
     
  9. Nemesis Liger

    Nemesis Liger Well-Known Member

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    I personally like the "alien" look. While I do like the G1 designs I thought Movieverse designs were much more realistic about the concept of transforming robots.

    On a random note, aren't they supposed to be aliens? That is what they are supposed to be, no?

    I mean no disrespect, but how does the "boxy" look automatically translate to "Machine"? All machines aren't exactly boxy.
     
  10. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I think the key is bad to me. This doesn't mean that the designs are going to be bad to everyone. Where I see chaos and disorder someone else might find order and logic. But then that's always been the nature of art.

    I guess the nature of Transformers as well. For everything that I can list as being so cool about Arcee in Transformers Prime someone else could make an equally long and valid list of reasons her design doesn't work for them.
     
  11. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    How old are you? Really?
     
  12. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot The Strongest.

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    I agree. I don't see anything in the movie designs that in any way says "organic". Organic would mean, y'know, organic... Living material like flesh or plant matter. There is clearly none of that. I can also see your point that they don't look particularly machinelike in the toons, more like polygonal boxes.
     
  13. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    The heck they didn't.

    I dunno... in my mind, anyone who makes a statement like this is either smoking 'shrooms or suffer from rabbid movie fanboi syndrome.

    If G1 didn't look like machines, then neither should have Armada, Cybertron, or Armada.

    Quite frankly, there are only (3) types of transformers that never looked like machines:

    Pretender shells
    Beast Wars alt modes
    Beast Machine transorganics.

    Actualy, I would say Prime before I would say Megatron. Some bots look like a deliberate, coherant robot... like Sideswipe or Ratchet. Or maybe even Megatron.

    However Movie Prime, to me, always lookes like a bunch of loose, random bits that have been glued to a pipe or something. Starscream isn't much diferent.
     
  14. Alienbot

    Alienbot Well-Known Member

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    Yeah now that you mention it, he is afterall the most faithful to the G1 designs and requires the least cheating in transformations, but at the cost of having all these bits hanging on his shoulders and hips.
     
  15. Tigertrack

    Tigertrack Back In The Game!

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    Transorganics. Interesting name, noticed the "organic" part in there?
     
  16. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    I actually thought that Movie Jazz was pretty darn faithful in design... maybe moreso that Prime.
     
  17. Paxtin

    Paxtin ...

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    Yeah...They kinda didn't.
    They looked like generic toy robots. There was nothing realistically mechanical looking about them. For those who liked them, they weren't...horrible designs. But mechanical looking, they were not.
     
  18. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Wait a minute- you said that they looked like robots... but not machine.

    How... how could something look like a robot but not look like a machine?

    If something looks like a robot then it looks like a machine by default.

    As for the "looks like cardboard boxes" thing... that's like saying schoolbusses or Peterbilt's don't look like machines either.
     
  19. Paxtin

    Paxtin ...

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    I said toy robot. Which sounds a little redundant I'll admit. I probably should have said cartoon robot.

    This has pretty much come down to being less about character design, and more about the difference between cartoon and realistic aesthetics.

    Not all cartoon robots really look like mechines, so you can't really just say they're realisticly mechanical just because they're dubed a robot. Rosie from the Jetsons was a robot, but was hardly realisticly mechanical.

    In the case of transformers, we have robots that change shape via moving and shifting around their parts; so to dipict something like that realisticly, theres going to have to be some visible mechanical detail to those designs.
    If you leave out the mechanic detail, they feel less like machines, and look more like cartoons.

    I'll give you this, some of the designs from the movie can lay on the detail a bit too much. Especially something I noticed in ROTF. It's something that could be taken down just a notch. But again, that has less to do with the actual character design, and more the overall aesthetics.
     
  20. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    What I am saying is, realistic or not, if something looks (not simply dubbed) like a robot, then by default it looks mechanical.

    She doesn't have to be realistic. She looks like a robot and thus looks mechanical.

    What about R2D2?