You get it completely. That's all I have been saying. You understand 100%.

 

"background characters" is a fucking big hyperbole. Seriously, at EVERY happening there's a Transformers involved with it.

One of two scenes is about TFs in DOTM.

Kidding me, son? Who killed Shockwave? Who Killed Soundwave? Who killed Megatron? Who gave the military guns to harm the Decepticons? Who the hell killed Sentinel for God's sake, who killed the Driller? Who killed Laserbeak?

The humans were just background soldiers doing their job as heroic mooks.

Humans never take down the main villain, humans always get their ass handled back to them for quite a good while when the TF show up and solve their problems for them.

As I said before: One at each two scenes is about the Autobots on DOTM. I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

 

Yes It's a bit of an exageration and I'll admit that.

But this is the point, aside from two of those you've mentioned - those being Laserbeak and Soundwave - the others where taken down by Prime. Look at what I mean - we had Ratchet, Dino, Sideswipe and three Wreckers in that final fight and none of them did anything of any value, that's the point. They just weren't used at all, I mean, the Wreckers are tooled up to the eyeballs with weaponry and yet we get to see them run from Shockwave and cut down Prime from some lame cables.

A human took down the main villain in the first film did he not? Wasn't it the F-22's followed by Sam and the Cube that got rid of Megatron?

The main point is, aside from two Autobots - Bumblebee and Optimus - the rest of them are just wasted, and that's where the problem lies.

 

I don't think you're friend knows what he's talking about. When they say it took 38 hours to render a frame, they are talking about computer power, not manpower. It take 38 hours for the computer to calculate how the light reflects off all the different surfaces of the model. Having 38 people work on it will not let it be done in one hour, doesn't work like that.

The models are over-complex and inefficient. It just slows everything down when you have complex geometry and hi-res textures for individual nuts and bolts that aren't going to be visible in the final product. If they were optimised to speed up the render times, I'm sure they could increase the amount of footage they're able to put out. And if they cut out a lot of the superfluous CG and just focused on what's important to the story, they could go that much further.

 

I agree the Autobots lacked "big bad guy kills", but The Wreckers did helped taking down Shockwave, build the Xantium and took down some Drone ships and fought Sentinel [alongside the rest of the Autobots, and the military].

Sideswipe was on the infamous Mexican Standoff, Dino had indeed a small amount of screen-time, but he was awesome nonetheless ["STAY STILL, PER FAVORE!"], Ratchet had also a small amount, but you could see him ordering around the Autobots when Optimus wasn't there, that was cool [and every time scientific explanation was needed].

They all had their time to shine, that's my point.

What killed Megatron was the AllSpark, not Sam, you can't really count that on Sam.

While I agree that on some extent, I think:

1 - It's a two-hours movie [and these robots are expensive to animate], we can't have them ALL with a shitload of screen-time, other characters [and plot points] need to be shown.

2 - You can't really blame that on human presence.

3 - ROTF aside, All Autobots had moments to shine [particulary on Movie One], they aren't "wasted", they all have purpose and scenes of characterization on movie One and DOTM,

Ratchet for example, had a role on DOTM every time something involving science was needed, The Wreckers did quite a few things on the final battle

 

Oh yeah, I can see what you mean and I'm not trying to argue really, but from my point of view there is alot of misused screen time and a lack of character development on the actual bots themselves. The Autobots don't tend to get personalised as much as some of the soldiers do - as the films go for example, we actually got to learn more about John Malkovich's character than we did Dino and Que combined! That's the sort of thing that is missing from the films. Like you say, you throughly enjoyed the scene with Ratchet ordering the Autobots about or when Ironhide hits Prime during the "Silent Treatment" scene - those where good little bits...just needed a few more of those and less peptalks from Sam's parents or Soldiers falling from Osprey's.

For example, a better way of removing Shockwave would have been having Dino & Sideswipe in vehicle mode, go tearing up to him and going past at speed, with Optimus following behind to apply the coup de grâce with his back turned. Something like that would have felt better and resonated more of a response from the audience than the scene we did get.

If that makes sense. Wasted was perhaps a too strong word, but underused fits the bill nicely.

 

The misused screen-time thing might be true but might not be as well [the whole "we can't have a full movie with robots"-thing].
On character development, I'm cool with it, I don't think the Autobots need to change their personalities once every movie, their development has been done years ago, on The War.

But still, there were things like Optimus in deep sorrow and anger when talking to Sentinel [seriously, Optimus was almost crying on the final battle, Cullen's tone nailed it].

This depends on which Autobot and which soldier we're talking about.
Lennox is more of a satelite character, he is there only to represent mankind's military [while Sam is there to represent mankind's emotions], he gets as much characterization as Ironhide in my opinion.

Epps gets as much characterization as Que.

While I do agree with most your said, On Que and Dino, I don't blame that on John Malkovich, his character was needed to show Sam and his whole subplot, and all parent's peptalk was kinda requied for Sam's character development, the soldiers on ospreys were so cool I am unable to complain.

That would be cool.
But I think Shockwave's demise was good nonetheless, pretty much all of the main cast [Dino and Sideswipe aside] had to team up to kill him.

I agree to some extent.

My point is: While this is a flaw, I don't think it's bad to the point of making the whole movie suck.

 

Please never make a transformers movie then....



Unless the humans have at least SOME ability to muck things up, why even bother with disguises?


This debate is pointless. Look back at the 1984 Transformers. How much characterization did the bots get in that? Apart from Kup, Hotrod, and Arcee, essentially zero. Nobody cared then, because we already knew these characters.

The problem with the movieverse hasn't been the movies (well, except for the humor in #2). It's been the lack of really well tied in "expanded universe" type material. If these characters were introduced to us and explained and shown before the movies, then the movie format would work perfectly and nobody would be complaining. The fact of the matter is the original TF movie did no better in this regard. Welcome to the reality of having a movie with a large cast.

 

To be fair, even in G1 the decepticons were outsmarted by humans numerous times and often acted liked doofuses =p

But yes I do agree that there was too much human action there. I don't have a problem with humans joining the fight but I came to watch Transformers and I did feel like they gave the humans way too much screen time. Military involvement is also fine with me since it is more realistic for an alien invasion.

 

That's a bad stereotype and you should feel bad for posting it.

Even the dumbest people who want to join the Army are braver than you, at the very least, for wanting to join the Army.