A new fan's journey into Transformers

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by AquaVersus, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. AquaVersus

    AquaVersus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Likes:
    +1
    Hey there, everyone! Not only is this my first post, but I'm also a brand-new Transformers fan and I figured I'd share my journey into this fandom with you all. :) 

    I was born in 1990 so my earliest experiences with Transformers were the Beast Wars and Beast Machines cartoons. I knew they were connected to the older Transformers cartoon, but I wasn't sure about the nature of that connection; at any rate, I enjoyed the shows now and then, but I was never a huge fan. I've also of course seen some of the Hollywood movies (the first two) and didn't really like them. I'm already a big RPG gamer, an anime fan (Sailor Moon!), a Power Rangers/Kamen Rider/Super Sentai/tokusatsu nerd, a Digimon geek, a hockey fan...basically, I'm already involved in a few fandoms, and I haven't really expressed a strong interest in Transformers before, so how does a guy like me end up deciding to dive head-first into a brand new fandom?

    Well, I watched a video about Starscream a few days ago. It made me immensely curious about the Transformers world at large. So a few days ago, I bought the Shout! Factory boxset of the G1 cartoon. I'm almost done with the first season. I'm kind of loving it.

    I'm a bit nervous. I'm trying to save money these days so getting into another toyetic franchise really isn't a good idea, and I already want to start buying figures (especially figures of my bae Starscream <3), but I'm trying to control my toy-collecting urges and just focus on the G1 cartoon itself for now. And speaking of the cartoon...like I said, I'm loving it.

    Sort of.

    I enjoy it a lot! I think it's funny, cheesy, and full of action. It definitely feels like an 80s cartoon but I knew it would be like that, so that's not a bad thing at all. I enjoy the voice acting, I don't hate the human characters nearly as much as I thought I would, and I love the robots' designs. I even have some favorites already: Starscream, Soundwave, Prowl, and Hound, to name a few. Huffer makes me laugh.

    Of course, nothing is perfect. I'm sure you guys are all well-versed in the G1 cartoon's flaws, but the animation/coloring errors are rather hard to ignore, even for a new fan like myself. I'm also kind of finding it difficult to tell some of the characters apart, especially the smaller Autobots. Also, is Sparkplug really Spike's father's name? Really? In addition, I thought I would love the Dinobots (I've owned a funny Grimlock shirt for years now before knowing anything about the character) but I'm actually finding them a bit underwhelming. Maybe it's just me.

    I think that some of the episodes move really quickly and they don't really introduce concepts/characters very well. When we met Chip Chase, I felt like I missed an episode introducing him -- same goes for the evil human scientist with the robot arm whose name I can't even remember. The show makes up for these issues, though, as it's still fun to watch. I'm honestly having a blast. It's of course very episodic, and things don't seem to make a lot of sense, but I'm just rolling with it and having fun. I'm going to finish season one tomorrow, most likely. Next up is season two and then, of course, the movie.

    I'm curious as to how I should proceed from here on out, though. Obviously I'll resume the G1 cartoon after watching the movie, and then I think the most logical thing to do would be to watch Beast Wars and then Beast Machines -- but I will most likely play Transformers: Devastation immediately upon finishing the G1 cartoon, though. Here's the thing about getting into Transformers: it's REALLY intimidating. I don't have to describe all of the continuities and sub-continuities to you all. So I'm not sure how I should proceed after Devastation and the Beast cartoons. I guess it depends on how much I'm enjoying G1. I definitely want to give the IDW comics a shot (the idea of Chromedome and Rewind is another thing that drew me to Transformers) but I also think I should read the Marvel comics first, not sure why. I'm also not sure if I should read the Marvel comics before or after I start the Beast cartoons because I heard they incorporate some of the Marvel comics' mythos, in some weird way or another. Then of course there are the Japanese G1 cartoons which I'm really interested in, but I'm also interested in checking out RiD (2001), the Unicron Trilogy, Prime...and I just recently discovered that Japan got their own anime sequels to Beast Wars. Jeez! XD

    Basically, I want to experience as much of this franchise as I possibly can. XD Just not sure of the best way to go about doing so once I get through this early part. Starting with the 1985 cartoon seems like a no-brainer, but it really seems like there are multiple ways to continue and there might not even be a "right" or "wrong" way to go about it -- but I'd still like some recommendations.

    I'd appreciate anything you guys can tell me. I'll update this thread as I go along and while I don't plan on doing episode-by-episode reviews, I will likely write up some kind of season one overview when I finish it -- though I guess I already did that for the most part. I'm not sure what kind of purpose this thread will serve, but I ultimately think it might be interesting for some of you to experience the franchise from a new fan's perspective.
     
  2. David Hingtgen

    David Hingtgen Chromaticon

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    15,260
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Location:
    USA
    Likes:
    +14,574
    Don't miss out on Transformers: Animated. Get it any way you have to. :) 

    (and IMHO, you won't be missing out on much if you skip the Unicron trilogy--or at least, skipping large parts of it)

    I personally liked RiD/2001 a lot, but opinions vary widely on that series. But no one can deny that Sky-Byte is a *great* character that series introduced.
     
  3. SG Roadbuster

    SG Roadbuster SG Wrecker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Posts:
    7,082
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Likes:
    +11,140
    Tfwiki.net is an amazing resource if you're looking for information about the characters, fiction and toys. And its got a certain sense of humor to it that makes it more entertaining than wikipedia articles.

    Tfu.info will help you identify any transformers (and gobot) toys you happen to see out in the wild and are unsure of. Its also a great guide to what parts/accessories all of the toys come with.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Posts:
    28,342
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    422
    Likes:
    +10,397
    Don't overlook the comics, either. You may find the original marvel series gives you a new take on characters from the television shows, or introduces you to new characters you enjoy. Likewise for the IDW reboot!
     
  5. SG Roadbuster

    SG Roadbuster SG Wrecker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Posts:
    7,082
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Likes:
    +11,140
    The Marvel comics are a mixed bag. The writing is fantastic, but the art....isn't

    The dreamwave g1 comics are skippable

    Armada energon and cybertron's cartoons are skippable, but the toys (for energon and cybertron) are great.
    The armada comic was passable. But sadly dreamwave was embezzled to death before energon and cybertron comics could fully materialize.

    Rid 2001/car robots is a good goofy palatte cleaner after the super serious grimdark of beast machines.

    Prime is actually a decent show for noobs. The animation is pretty and the plot isn't too complicated, and the characters are memorable enough.

    Jury's still out on rid 2015. Preliminary opinion: goofy palatte cleaner after the grimdark endings of Prime.

    Beast wars 2nd and neo I would call unimportant. Especially since the effort involved with tracking down a good english sub isn't worth it unless you've gone super hardcore.

    The idw comics, hoo boy, there's 11 years worth of backlog to go through. If you wanna start from the beginning Spotlight Shockwave and the Infiltration series are the logical starting points. And most of the early world building is done there.

    Death of Optimus Prime and the rid/mtmte split is a good jumpining on point for new readers who aren't ready for the Furman, Mcarthy, or Costa runs.

    Jury's still out on post Revolution idw. My magic 8ball says the outlook isn't good.

    Funpub's comics and "mini-novels" are for the Alpha-Nerds who wants to see fiction starring super obscure characters like Oilmaster, Carzap, and Star Upper.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Mr JackatooTM

    Mr JackatooTM I'm a Colossal boi

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Posts:
    823
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Location:
    Cybertron
    Likes:
    +476
    Definately check out Transformers: Animated Prime is a good starter show for newbies. Rescue Bots is good if you have kids. and don't forget IDW. You picked a good franchise to get into :) 
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Mr JackatooTM

    Mr JackatooTM I'm a Colossal boi

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Posts:
    823
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Location:
    Cybertron
    Likes:
    +476
    If you want to get into collecting, I got some advise.
    1.) Don't spend too much money (Based on your current budget)
    2.) First set small collection goals for yourself. Ex: 20 toys in the first 2 months.
    3.) Get a small, empty bookshelf to display your toys
    4.) Don't buy a toy as soon as you see it even if its cheap or you can afford it.
     
  8. BumblebeeFan71

    BumblebeeFan71 Loyal Starscream Follower

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Posts:
    1,529
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Wherever Optimus' Trailer disappers to.
    Likes:
    +838
    YouTube (Legacy):
    I would also recommend checking out the live-action movies. While not exactly everyone's cup of tea, there are some interesting ideas and themes that do appear in them. Transformers - The Last Knight seems to especially interesting with the themes and plotlines presented and will actually release this year in June.

    If you like Starscream then I recommend you definitely give Robots in Diguise 2015, the sequel series to Prime a watch. Of course it depends more on what aspects you like about him. Do you like how pathetic at times he can be that you can't help but love it (much like myself), or do you like his more scheming and trickster side? If you chose the latter then you'll love Steeljaw.

    [​IMG]
    While his wolf design comes off as odd to some people since he does transform into a car, he's a pretty good villain. Much like Starscream he tends to be a trickster by using lies and charms in orders to achieve his goals and he's actually really good at it. I find that he gets to shine more in Season 2 than he did in Season 1. Also add onto the fact he is voiced by Troy Baker. I really hope we still see him team up with Staarscream in Season 3.

    Moving onto your situation with the toy collection, unless you really want to get every figure in a toyline I find it's best to only but your favorites that way you won't get overwhelmed by having too many figures and saves you money.
     
  9. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Posts:
    27,040
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    392
    Likes:
    +38,516
    Don't get in over your head, yet.

    Stick with the cartoons and finish them, first. From there, you can choose which path you want. If you want G1 to continue, watch BW/BM or read the comics.
    If you want more animated goodness, checkout TF Animated as previously mentioned. The nods and throwbacks to G1 are incredibly fun and they handle the humor quite well.
    TF Prime is a solid series, as well. Especially season 1. 2 drops the ball a little bit around the midseason (there's a storyline that repeats so you can see it from the POV of several different characters, it slows stuff down immensely.) Season 3 (Beast Hunters) starts out slow and kind of wonky, but picks up in the middle and finishes like a champ. (Avoid the follow up movie, Rise Of The Predacons, it sucks and is depressing.)

    RID (2001) is more of a comedy and has some heavy doses of silliness strewn about. The characters and toys are great, though.
    RID (2015) is a sequel to Prime/BH and has no affiliation with the 2001 series. That said, I use "sequel" in the loosest way possible. It's definitely a sequel, but the ties that bind are pretty darn loose and it feels like they're shoehorning pieces of Prime into RID to make it fit when it really doesn't.

    The Unicron Trilogy is an eyesore. Visually, it's one of the worst to experience. Armada had some of the absolute worst animation we've seen in a LONG time. Energon was better, it used celshading/CGI and traditional animation to push the visuals and it was jarring compared to Armada. Cybertron was more of Energon's type of animation but also kind of shoehorned in. A lot of people felt that Cybertron wasn't technically a part of the Unicron Trilogy but they made it so anyways. (I'm not sure where I stand on it, I've not seen much of that series. Heck, any of them, really.)

    The comics are a rabbit hole you have to be careful about going down. They change the characters fundamentally, the stories can be incredibly depressing and some are just talky. Much like an episodic series, the comics have good issues, bad issues and somewhere in between. They take you into storylines you'd not imagine, add characters you've never heard of before, etc. So it's a commitment you need to figure out before you head down that path because the comics are an ongoing cost.

    The toys will honestly make or break it for you. Do you want Masterpiece? There's official and 3rd party for that. Do you want CHUG? (the main line for older kids and collectors which can be obtained at regular retail, such as Titans Return) these cover G1, the comics, Beast era, etc. It's kind of a catch all toy line with modern updates. RID (2015) has it's own toyline as well. It's a polarizing line, because a lot of fans find them to be simplified and cartoonish, plus they're incredibly hollow and the hollow spots can be an eyesore. The more openminded of us fans have given the line a chance and while they do have their issues, some of them are genuinely solid figures to have in your collection. Especially the newer waves featuring Bisk and Ratchet.

    Don't let us sway you, find what makes you happiest and go from there. You might be surprised what floats your boat and what doesn't. Just remember to have fun, because that's really what this is all about.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Posts:
    18,883
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +8,130
    Well, as you're going to find, even the fandom is fairly divided on virtually every issue, so what we recommend (or suggest you pass up) may not be your own.

    Beyond G1 and the Beast Shows, I would suggest given your interests, to watch the first 2 episodes of the Japanese series Galaxy Force (if you can find them subbed, then jump over and watch the US version, Cybertron episode 2 (Episode 3 of Galaxy Force) from there on out; the US cut the crap out of the first few episodes of Galaxy Force, but the dub is actually quite good once they get over that hiccup.), Transformers: Animated, and then Rescue Bots. Rescue Bots is a very different show, which puts character and character growth first, by aiming at a younger audience and omitting the Decepticons; you have a team of Rescue Robots from before the Dark Ages who totally missed the war landing on Earth and setting up in a Eureka (TV show) style town; it's also the longest running show and can be a lot of fun.

    Personally I'm also a big fan of Victory, part of the extended Japanese G1 family. You can also go into that anytime after you finish season 3.

    For the comics, Marvel G1 may not be the best, but it is a solid comic that explored a lot of ideas and did interesting things. IDW, honestly, I'd suggest skipping to "The Death of Optimus Prime" and going from there into More Than Meets The Eye.

    You mentioned Devastation, but I'd also recommend War For Cybertron and Fall of Cybertron, even as just rentals after you've finished G1 at any time of your leisure.

    For the toys, well, that's a whole other issue; I'd suggest using either the Wiki or TFU, both linked in prior posts to help become aware of any figures you may be interested in. Your preferences should guide you, don't feel like you have to purchase anything or allow others to mandate purchases for you. There's also no shortage of reviews online, to give you that extra information. Make a budget, stay within that budget and enjoy what you get. At least as a starting point.

    Welcome to the Fandom. I can understand about feeling overwhelmed, but don't feel like you have to absorb it all right away; even long term fans have had decades, so no one is expecting that of you right away. Also, feel free to ask questions.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. SG Roadbuster

    SG Roadbuster SG Wrecker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Posts:
    7,082
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Likes:
    +11,140
    You should play Convoy no nazo (Mystery of Convoy) while listening to the Kissplayers Audio dramas..........sorry, i couldnt type that with a straight face.
     
  12. AquaVersus

    AquaVersus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Likes:
    +1
    It's been about a week since I posted this and I wasn't expecting such a warm welcome! Thank you all for your suggestions, thoughts, and ideas.

    I should have clarified my original question since it seems like a lot of you guys misinterpreted me. I'm really digging what I'm seeing so far re: Transformers, so I will definitely watch/read/play (video games) as much as possible. So in terms of where to go after finishing the G1 cartoon, I wasn't exactly looking for which shows or stories are "best" or more interesting, or which ones have good/bad storylines -- I was wondering which would make sense from a chronological perspective. I know that my opinions on the shows will be my own and I wasn't really looking for things like that, but I guess it was kind of a weird question.

    I'm the type of fan who likes to experience things in production order as much as possible. I usually don't like to skip around. Transformers makes this difficult, though, because of the many continuities and continuity families -- so even though there is still a production order, I also like to follow a canon/continuity one at a time, and that doesn't work when Transformers has comics running at the same time as the G1 cartoon that have a different canon, for example. So after finishing the G1 cartoon, the movie, and the Beast shows, I was wondering how exactly to integrate the other "G1" continuities into this experience while still maintaining somewhat of a production order -- meaning, when should I start reading the G1 comics, and when do I start watching the Japanese G1 shows, etc. Of course, as I've learned more about Transformers in the past week or so, I've realized this is kind of a fool's errand -- Transformers doesn't seem like the kind of franchise that has a neat order to it. I accept that now. <3

    Like Pravus Prime said above, I was just feeling a bit overwhelmed. I think that Transformers is oddly very accessible for new fans, but for someone like me, I got overwhelmed very quickly. That said, I've taken the basic advice given here into consideration and just continued with the original cartoon, and I'm still loving it by the way. I'm in season 2 and I'm finding it to be a vast improvement over season 1, though I'm not sure why or how since the production value seems close to that of the first season. Like many of you suggested, I'm just going to enjoy it and proceed with whatever feels right for me at the time. <3

    Thanks so much!
     
  13. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    97,936
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +99,904
    Instagram:
    Chronologically then, what you're looking for is Beast Wars. It's both one of the best, if not the best TF show, but is a direct follow up to G1.

    But really that's the crux of Transformers. Continuity and chronology often splinter and reset. It's less one continuous story, more a jumbled pot.
     
  14. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Posts:
    28,342
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    422
    Likes:
    +10,397
    Ohhhhh. Okay.

    Well, once you've finished the G1 animated series, the movie, and the beast shows (I'm assuming you mean Beast Wars AND Beast Machines)... it starts to get a little tricky. There's a lot of... offramps at this point.

    First, I'm going to assume that we're going to set aside the comics, books, etc. for now and limit ourselves to the television shows. Even then, you have several branching paths you can decide on.

    If we take the path of shows that were aired in North America, the next show after Beast Machines would be the 2001 Transformers: Robots in Disguise series. This was an adaptation of the Japanese Transformers: Car Robots series, and after Beast Machines failed to thrive, the planned series Transtech (it was never produced) was set aside in favor of bringing this over. Anime was also fairly popular at this time, so that likely helped as well. After RiD2K1, the next series is Transformers: Armada, which leads into TF: Energon and TF: Cybertron. RiD2K1 is effectively unrelated to the G1 continuity or the A/E/C trilogy that followed it.

    If you wanted to watch the Japanese trilogy, they branch off before Beast Wars, basically after season 3 of the G1 animated series. Headmasters ignores the american G1 "The Rebirth" miniseries and goes off in its own direction. Masterforce follows Headmasters (though not strongly) and Victory follows Masterforce. Each of the three series sort of do their own thing and take different approaches with the idea of Transformers (Headmasters kind of resembles G1, Masterforce draws influences from sentai shows, and Victory is more in line with the "super robot" genre of anime). After Victory, there were a few storylines told in manga and magazines, but for our purposes in this case it sort of dead ends.

    There's also another branch, where the Japanese audience didn't get the later seasons of Beast Wars right away, and filled that time with two Beast Wars anime series, namely, Beast Wars 2, the Beast Wars 2 movie, and Beast Wars Neo (the story follows that sequence). All of these series were exclusive to Japan, but there are fansubs out there, which might be your best bet, given I don't believe these were ever formally released in english or with english subtitles. These series fit in between S1 and S2/3 of Beast Wars, but don't really have much impact on Beast Wars itself, as you may have already realized.


    Does that help?
     
  15. AquaVersus

    AquaVersus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Likes:
    +1
    Yes, immensely. Thank you! I just have to make my own decision when I get there. Right now I'm thinking G1 cartoon, Beast Wars/Machines, then maybe the Japanese Beast Wars shows if only because I think Lio Convoy has an awesome design.

    I'm really getting that! That said, while it's definitely a bit of a headache when you look at all of the continuities, it really is very accessible for new fans.
     
  16. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Posts:
    28,342
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    422
    Likes:
    +10,397
    Glad to be of service, sounds like you have a plan! After you've gone through the literally hundreds of episodes you've got on your plate there, I would recommend checking out some of the Japanese trilogy, or at least Masterforce (Headmasters, I prefer to watch the terrible english dub for comedy reasons), they can be a pretty interesting take on the brand at times.
     
  17. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Posts:
    18,883
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +8,130
    You'll probably have a hard time watching the Japanese Beast Wars shows, Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo. They were never fully subtitled and have become increasingly rare to even find unsubbed anymore. In the late 90's a group did the Beast Wars II movie in very engrish subtitles, then in more recent years a group tried fan dubbing some of them (though I'm not fond of a good chunk of their translation work). Even finding it raw has dried up years ago; a few uploaders uploaded the series from VHS or whatever format onto YouTube, but most if not all were removed at some point during a YouTube purge (same happened with all the people who had uploaded all the other TF shows).

    There was hope two or three years back now when the series got a high end DVD release in Japan, but no one (that I ever saw) ripped them or shared.

    So I very much doubt you'll be able to find them at all, in any form, to watch.

    You'll run into your first splinter next season; after G1 Season 3 concludes there's a split; in the US, you get Rebirth, a three part episode that ends G1. In Japan, you don't get Rebirth, you get Headmasters, a 52 episode series that continues on right where Season 3 left off. After that, there's a dissonant series called Masterforce that is another 52 episode series, then Victory which continues both Headmasters and uses some of Masterforce to continue in another big series, leading to (ugh) Zone, which ends Japanese G1. Rebirth and the continued Japanese series are not compatible at all.
     
  18. AquaVersus

    AquaVersus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Likes:
    +1
    I actually just downloaded all of Beast Wars II subtitled in English (with two subtitle tracks, original names and "localized" names like changing Destron into Predacons etc.) and I am about to download Beast Wars Neo unsubtitled, which won't be that big of a problem since I studied Japanese at college, lol. My Japanese is still very limited but I watch lots of things without subtitles and I get by. A fun game I like to play is to watch something raw, then watch a subtitled version to see what I understood etc.

    I'm a huge anime fan and I know where to look. Took me about 2 minutes to find Neo and Beast Wars II.
     
  19. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    97,936
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +99,904
    Instagram:
    Be sure to watch the first Beast Wars first, of course. :D  Every now and then a new fan comes around, and them experiencing that show for the first time is always an amazing ride.
     
  20. AquaVersus

    AquaVersus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Likes:
    +1
    Of course! I actually grew up with Beast Wars, and though I didn't exactly sit down and watch every episode, I definitely remember seeing a few here and there/roleplaying as the characters online when I was young. For years I always associated Megatron with a T-rex because of that show. :p  And of course the only thing I remembered from Beast Machines was Botanica, the concept of a plant Transformer still intrigues me to this day.

    That said, I don't remember much from the show so going through it all will still be an overall "new" experience as I didn't really watch any of the story arcs unfold, just caught episodes now and then -- but it will also feel familiar as well, I imagine.
     
    • Like Like x 1