3rd Party Items Banned from BotCon 2015

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Mechafire, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. Hollywood Hoist

    Hollywood Hoist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Posts:
    5,994
    News Credits:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +358
    That's based on G1 Jetfire which originally used the Macross figure. So Hasbro isn't trying to rip off Harmony Gold, they were creating a homage to their own character. It's the same thing with Hasbro making CHUG cars look similar to the cars that the characters were originally. So it is very different from a company creating something to look like another companies product.
     
  2. Ninjak

    Ninjak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Posts:
    762
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +868
    That right there could be a reason you don't see Hasbro vehemently going after some IP infringers. At the end of the day, the average kid isn't the one buying the third party products that do infringe, let alone instead of a Hasbro release or in vast quantities. It's we collectors who've actually heard of them and have access to them. It's not as if tons and tons of KO/homage RID Strongarms are in the wild luring away sales from their main demographic. However, being this is still a business, Hasbro definitely has the right to tell infringers to cease and desist if they see it as a threat and/or decide it's with the money spent to fight that fight if it goes that far. If not, they can choose to turn a blind eye. That's their choice. Frankly, it's not as if they or FunPub are being mean-spirited, in that respect, when they don't want those wares at a show highlighting their stuff. No amount of vitriol and chest-thumping can change that fact. It doesn't matter what reasons users who have purchased such items give for buying them (G1 accuracy, engineering, Hasbro-bashing, etc). That's irrelevant. Nor is Hasbro at fault for not providing a figure on a timeline fabricated by an impatient buyer. Kids don't care what a Transformer looked like 20-30 years ago, they want an enjoyable toy. And they aren't necessarily going to be "invested" in G1 characters.

    I've bought infringing toys before. Not tons, but a few. Because I liked the item in question. But I have never bought one in lieu of a Hasbro release. I like to make sure that Hasbro gets the patronage I feel they deserve. If I can spend money on an Intimidator, that doesn't stop me from spending money on CW/Unite Menasor. And I fully enjoy the update of a G1 classic. Times change, and designs evolve. While we might like the G1 past, we don't have to be stuck solely in it, and Hasbro can't afford to do so. But they know that there are those in the fandom for whom that's their favorite toy generation, so they give us nods to that when they can.

    And that's what the infringers do. They give us toys that are a nod to that era. Is it appreciated? Sure. Are some of the toys great? Yes. (And it's unfair to compare them to Hasbro releases for a younger demographic, particularly when there are budget and safety restrictions to consider). Is it the "right" thing to do? No. Just because it's not as bad as the KOs which blatantly try to pass themselves off as the original IP, it's still using another's IP to make money. Even if such collector items aren't cutting deeply into their profits. Just because there's a market for it and we enjoy the product doesn't change the ethics of that. And this isn't throwing stones at the developers or buyers. Many of those devs are fans of the original IP, and their releases are their love letters to it, so to speak. That doesn't mean that there might not be trouble ahead for them. They know the risks.

    But to all the people complaining about HasTak being trash or cheaply constructed or not what you want to buy, just remember that NONE of those infringing items would be around to begin with if not for HasTak inspiring them in the first place. And they will continue to receive my patronage for as long as they make products I wish to purchase. It's my own personal belief that one shouldn't buy the other products instead of the Hasbro, but it's not my place to tell people that's what they should or shouldn't do, and I respect other viewpoints of the fandom, whether or not I agree with them. Unique items like Steel Core are wonderful and I look forward to seeing more of such original items. To be honest, I'd rather see more of that than the homages. For one thing, it eliminates all the "this version is better than that version of the character" nonsense and you get the satisfaction of knowing you're buying something brand new that can stand among others in your collection. (At least for those of us not obsessed with having only "official" characters).

    The bottom line is, there's a place for all such items for the fans, so long as they have an understanding that Hasbro has the right to defend their intellectual property and not be bashed for for unfair comparisons to items infringing on said intellectual property. if people want to dislike what they release, fine. But to dislike CW Bruticus because it's not like Warbotron? That's a bit silly. It needs to stand or fall on its own merits.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2015
  3. Hollywood Hoist

    Hollywood Hoist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Posts:
    5,994
    News Credits:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +358
    The fan club has to stay within the rules set by Hasbro as a licensee, they can't do whatever they want.
     
  4. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Posts:
    6,819
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +3,794
    To say nothing about the fact that, when G1 Jetfire was being created, Hasbro DID get permission to use that mold. The fact that the current rightsholders seem to want to keep Hasbro from doing anything Jetfire-related now doesn't make Hasbro guilty of IP theft then.
     
  5. jamspeed

    jamspeed Follow me on Instagram _jamspeed_

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    1,678
    Trophy Points:
    182
    Likes:
    +17
    Ebay:
    Who buys expensive toys at a convention? 99% of the time it's cheaper online. Botcon is for hanging out, looking at all the cool Transformers product and seeing panels. Chinese ip infringing toys have their place for fans to buy online.
     
  6. Hollywood Hoist

    Hollywood Hoist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Posts:
    5,994
    News Credits:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +358
    Except Lego didn't create the interlocking bricks, Kiddicraft and Hilary Page did in 1939. The patent on interlocking bricks has expired so not at all the same thing.
     
  7. jfetch

    jfetch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Posts:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +3
    I know right? Maybe if Hasbro would step up their game a little more, we wouldn't have to resort to 3rd party. :(  I really love my Mech Ideas Ironfist and I was reaaaally looking forward to buy a Mastermind Creations Solus Prime at BotCon if they had her there. Buying online just isn't as fun as talking to the seller and buying in person. Maybe the sellers will still put out 3rd party on Friday until they get yelled at. I'll go with that in mind.
     
  8. Dachande

    Dachande Pleasure Toast Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Posts:
    33,586
    News Credits:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    392
    Location:
    South Central PA
    Likes:
    +70,029
    If there's a Lego convention, run by Lego, they have the right to not allow Kreo or Mega Bloks to be sold there.
    It isn't exactly brain surgery.
     
  9. Predakwon

    Predakwon ...Green Lantern's light!

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Posts:
    8,363
    News Credits:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    NYC/LI
    Likes:
    +6,647
    Ebay:
    I don't think (again I'm assuming) anyone here doesn't understand why Funpub banned the sales, more they are just disappointed that the unlicensed stuff isn't there.
     
  10. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Posts:
    11,772
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +8,047
    It's the corporations. They sit in their corporate offices all... corporation-y.

    It won't chill, they want nothing more than to try to push the strictest interpretation of the rule so they know how far to bend it, or to nuzzle right up to it.
     
  11. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Posts:
    8,762
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +7,625
    So what if they do? Are you the 3P police?

    Unless you work for the Con, or Hasbro, it has no real bearing on you.

    Live and let live man.
     
  12. seali_me

    seali_me RIP January 2018

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Posts:
    19,845
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +2,382
    And every time this happens everyone knows fully well where to go for some "shady" transactions.

    - parking lot infront of most like a van
    - hotel room

    :lol 

    I imagine if it was that important and the need to take the merchandise out of the van, parking lots and hotel rooms is that great, it would have it's own. they can have your motto. It sounds good enough. Then maybe add another quip: "we also carry official stuff and we're not corporate lap dogs."

    Imagine if 3P got bigger that way. Out performing the officially sponsored one.

    That would be hilarious.
     
  13. Omega Supreme-1

    Omega Supreme-1 Autobot Sentinel

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Posts:
    2,003
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +13
    Ebay:
    Would anyone else like to see [email protected] removed from the board? He comes here and he tries to dictate to moderation how he'd like things phrased. He essentially comes here to do PR and advertising for his convention. I'd honestly prefer said things didn't happen, and for Botcon staff get their fingers out of the boards.
     
  14. Goaliebot

    Goaliebot All Makes and Models

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Posts:
    3,885
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +2,380
    Lego was protected by patents, not Copyright. Patents expire.

    The courts have also ruled in several countries that Trademark does not protect the Lego design.

    Trademark protects the name and certain distinguishing names and symbols.

    Copyright protects stories and characters invented by Lego, but again: not the bricks themselves.

    "The definitive shape of the Lego bricks, with the inner tubes, was patented by the Lego Group in 1958.[9][40] Several competitors have attempted to take advantage of Lego's popularity by producing blocks of similar dimensions, and advertising them as being compatible with Lego bricks.

    In 2002, Lego sued the CoCo Toy Company in Beijing for copyright infringement over its "Coko bricks" product. CoCo was ordered to cease manufacture of the products, publish a formal apology and pay damages.[41]

    The English company Best-Lock Construction Toys was sued by Lego in German courts in 2004[42] and 2009;[43] however, the Federal Patent Court of Germany denied Lego trademark protection for the shape of its bricks for the latter case.[44] The Canadian company Mega Bloks were sued by Lego in 2005 for trademark violation, but the Supreme Court of Canada upheld Mega Bloks' rights to sell their product.[45] In 2010, the European Court of Justice ruled that the eight-peg design of the original Lego brick "merely performs a technical function [and] cannot be registered as a trademark."

    From Lego - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  15. G.B. Blackrock

    G.B. Blackrock Autobot Ally

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Posts:
    6,819
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +3,794
    I can't speak for everyone else, but no, I absolutely do not want to see Pete removed. Even if he can't or won't answer all of our questions to the extent we would like, we still get far more (and better) information with him here than we would if he weren't allowed here.
     
  16. influence82

    influence82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Posts:
    1,585
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Likes:
    +46
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    We kind of need a representative from Funpublications so we can get news direct from the source, otherwise its just speculation. It would be nice for Pete to be moderator of the Transformers Collector's Club forums, but for some reason that is not a priority for that organization.
     
  17. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Posts:
    11,772
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +8,047
    Are the 3P people flipping out in this thread examples of "live and let live man"? There was a guideline/rule established for the convention, and every comment from that side of the camp is either deriding the guideline/rule for being unfair, commentary on how IPI is NOT IPI, or an attempt to figure out how best to break that guideline/rule. I'd say practice what you preach.
     
  18. Goaliebot

    Goaliebot All Makes and Models

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Posts:
    3,885
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +2,380
    There are indeed people in this forum and this very thread that would be absolutely delighted to see Hasbro and Takara go under.

    I find that depressing. :( 

    Then again, there are also those who wish for 3p to cease to exist. I find that also depressing.

    I guess I just don't understand the surprising number of fans who actively wish (and almost campaign) for the destruction of any part of the fandom that they personally don't like.
     
  19. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Posts:
    8,762
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +7,625
    They aren't hell bent on policing anyone on any sort of policies. Most are asking for clarification and for the most part, it's been pretty civil.

    I think most people realize why the rule is in effect, and most are of the idea that "hey, it sucks but we get it."

    Those asking for clarification are giving reasons as to why they're asking. Curious as to see what's going to be available to purchase, mainly is what I've seen. There's nothing wrong with that.

    You have this attitude that you "just won't rest until these guys are brought to justice" or some ridiculous vigilante crap that has nothing to really do with you.

    People are still going to ask questions and want more detail. Even Joe Moore asked for further clarification. It's going to keep happening until the questions are answered, or until Botcon is over.

    Clarification isn't trying to bend or nuzzle any rules. It could very well be questions asking so they can watch their own asses.

    But again, no one is policing people. It's not going to stop, so the suggestion to chill (for both sides) is a valid suggestion.

    And again, even if people are doing what you say they are, it's not your job or responsibility to take care of it.
     
  20. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Posts:
    11,772
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +8,047
    No, it's not my job to "police" 3p. Nor would I do that. What the purpose of this ENTIRE FUCKING MESSAGE BOARD is to discuss things about TFs. News, toys, fiction, whatever. There's even a subforum especially for Unlicensed stuff. So what you're saying is that I'm out of line for discussing this situation, especially when people purposefully post polarizing comments or what amounts to calls to figure out ways to actively violate the Con's wishes.

    Good to know.