‘Transformers’ Producer Answers Critics Biggest Problems With ‘Age Of Extinction’

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by OptimusJet, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. Awesomus Prime

    Awesomus Prime I rise, you fall.

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    It's this kind of overstatement and willing ignorance of the movie's merits, that I touched on earlier, that cause arguments in these threads.

    If you didn't enjoy the movie, that's neither here nor there. But, you can't sit there and claim that the 'bots didn't do anything of value in the movie. You just can't. It's blatantly untrue.

    I, for one, am happy that the Dinobots even showed up in these movies, and that they came out looking and acting as accurately as they did. There was a time, not too long, when that seemed like a complete impossibility.

    I don't get what's so random and 'out of nowhere' about their appearance either. They were prisoners on Lockdown's ship, Optimus freed them, and they effectively served as the ghost army in Lord of the Rings. Works for me. On top of all that, they're most definitely going to show up in the sequels because... they're giant robot dinosaurs that will easily sell toys.

    Another thing that bugs me is everyone complaining that "Oh, they don't explain why they have the dinosaur alt-forms", as if a giant robot scorpion and a robot tiger didn't just pop up in the last three movies. It's not like any of the other source material has ever given a thoughtful and not contrived origin for the Dinobots anyway. So, why even bother?
     
  2. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    Oh please. I love IDW's More then Meets the Eye too but let's be real. It's great as a comic. It might be great as a cartoon. As a movie, or even series of movies? More then Meets the Eye would suck.

    I've been a fan of Transformers since the G2 days. And I liked AoE and I generally do like the Bay films in general. Am I not a "true fan"?

    If you saw AoE and thought "Michael Bay made the same type of movie as RotF or DotM" then you formed your opinion before you even saw it, and nothing that the movie did would have changed your mind.

    These statements are false. No two ways around it.

    So if I say I don't care for an independent film and a critic tells me I just don't get it I'm allowed to say that's a cop out? Seems like it.

    It's funny because I've seen Bay's movies described as modern art.

    Except the fourth movie actually addresses the issues from the first three! This is what's so irritating and why I keep saying movie criticism has jumped the shark.
    What were complaints people had about the first three? Adolescent humour, borderline racist humour, lacklustre plots, and the Autobots being treated as props.

    Well let's check AoE's score card.
    -Adolescent humour? Gone. Marky Mark complains his daughter's shorts are too short. That's about it.
    -Racist humour? Gone.
    -Autobots being treated as props? They're all given enough screen time to establish themselves as actual characters.
    -The plot? The movie cuts down on the overly scatter-brained plots of RotF and DotM. It still suffers from it a bit with Galvatron's plot thread, but compared to past films in the series? AoE's plot threads are tighter and more focused.

    Look, if you left the theatre thinking "I just didn't like it" that's fine. What irks me is seeing people, professional critics or otherwise, complain about the movie being more of the same. It's not. It really does feel like Bay took some of the criticisms about the last three films to heart and attempted to rectify them. Maybe he didn't do a good enough job for you, but at the very least give him credit for moving the series in the right direction.
    Can't have that though. Gotta bash Michael Bay personally! Because that's what Transformers movie criticism has devolved into.

    Hmm. So now the goalposts are being moved. It used to be "Bay treats the Transformers like props. He doesn't understand that they're characters."
    Now it's "Michael Bay gave them the wrong characters!"
    It's like the guy can't win. Which is part of the problem. So many people go in already having made up their minds about the film because "LOL FUCK MICHAEL BAY" is such a pervasive sentiment among people who assume they're the only ones who aren't brain dead simpletons. Never mind that, objectively, the movie addresses many complaints people have had about the past three films. That's not going to persuade them from their above mentioned pre-arranged sentiment.

    So now you're telling me what I, as a TF fan, should feel.
    This is another part of the problem. People assuming that they speak for the entire fandom when they go off and call Michael Bay one of the worst people ever for making a movie they didn't care for.
    Sorry, I've been a fan since I was a little kid. I'm also not a drooling idiot. Nor an easily impressed teenager. Yet I find the Bay films, save RotF, to be decent action flicks that call back to a franchise I enjoy. And you presume to tell me I'm wrong and should consider them as a "useful nuisance"? Internet elitism at its finest.
     
  3. ChaosDonkey

    ChaosDonkey Lord Brain

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    The major issue i had with the movie is the amount of popcorn i ate during 2 hours and 45 minutes.

    I HAD A SALT OVERDOSE
     
  4. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    No more contrived that the way Optimus and BB scanned for their forms, amirite.

    The thing about people saying they came out of nowhere is that their entire explanation for being there all goes back to Lockdown's information dump. It's the same problem that ROTF had when Jetfire unloaded tons of plot-narrative. If you miss that big load of info, for whatever reason, then the dinobots being there is a big wtf. Basically, that's not good story-telling when explanations for characters goes back to one line of dialogue in an overly-convoluted and sometimes hard to hear monologue.

    And really though, the whole "source material sucks, so this excuses any faults with the film" line is just as flimsy as the "Critics of the world just don't understand."
     
  5. Jerrymiru

    Jerrymiru TF Ninja

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    I think it's getting to that point.

    Think I'll just setback now. :popcorn 
     
  6. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    So it's the movie's fault if someone missed a huge exposition dump (which pretty much all movies have)? How about we collectively admit that if someone's not paying attention to the point that they miss crucial plot details then the problem's on them. Not the film.
     
  7. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    Calling Bay a hack senseless self arrogance. Uwe Boll is a hack. Hacks make films NOBODY likes. Bays only had one unsuccessful film, and that was because they expected more performance in the box office.

    People go to his movies for him, so he's not a hack, he has skill, paid dues making car ads and music videos, and came up with a style and methods some of his peers emulate.

    Such baseless accusations are what start these crazy flame wars. I remember when Orci was on here, the ridiculous amounts of mean spirited hatred ran him off. We had a possible resource to get some of our ideas voiced, but the overall jerk ass attitude of a few ended that.

    Yeah, and I was bored by "critical successes" XMEN and Spiderman. I like Edge of Tomorrow, but wonder if Tobey McGuire was the lead instead of Tom Cruise, how would the reviews have played out. Superman Returns was a critical and box office success.

    Bay is hater proof, critics know and resent it, and his summer movies are held to a higher standard. Why, I don't know.
    Bout the only time he seems to get a fair shake is his TV shows.

    I have heard that his movies are like OVERLY long TV episodes, so maybe there is something to it.

    We have similar tastes, so you may like AOE. Honestly I really liked the first, the second and 3rd were basically cool, but I was really there for the action. Had major issues with them. AOE is more controlled like the first.

    In some ways I wish AOE was the sequel to the first movie.

    This is true, Tyler Perry is the same way. But when you have financial success, companies won't want you to change, and what's the point? People forget Bay was bribed into TF4 by letting him make his passion project.

    If people really want to blame someone, blame Paramount. He had no reason to not come back. He gets to make tons of money AND support for a side project?

    Excellent post.
    C'mon guy. That was a horrible review. It reads like someone who just learned a bunch of big words and tried to combine them all to sound like he's giving an intelligent review.

    To be honest Bay subtlety showed some growth in this film. He only shows random hot women sexualized at the beginning of the movie. Once Cade comments on the short shorts, Tessa winds up in jeans and there really aren't anymore gratuitous sex shots. I counted 3 in this movie. As for zooming in on cars... uh, the cars are the focus so why wouldn't he zoom in on them?

    Kinda goes with the territory. .. lolz.

    I don't agree with lots of what you say, but you always put it very intelligently.

    This post , however, might as well have been downloaded from my brain. I feel like you do about film making. I like the TF movies, but I wonder if they're really and truly a product of this era.I enjoy Bay's style, but it would be nice to see him forced to transform his film making style to be competitive. As is, we do, by and large, keep watching the same thing again. .. and again... and again.

    He has no reason to improve or innovate. I think critics are a big part of this. People forget Star Wars was critically bashed. Now people won't take a chance and pay far to much attention to reviews.

    The Internet is a big part of this too.

    You're right, but your flaws are what someone else finds appealing. Not to mention you're not very objective about Bay. You saw the movie twice for free. It's hard to say your view against Bay isn't biased, because you clearly have a personal dislike of Bay.

    When you dislike something on a personal level, it takes the criticism to new levels.

    That's why I don't talk about Transformers Prime much.

    How could you not follow the plot? I don't get this. My dad watched it and got it, and he only went because he's taken me to every Transformers movie (since 86!).

    You have to be over analyzing it if you didn't get it. Nothing was jumbled unless you jumble it.

    Yeah... I love G1 above everything except Animated, but just no. Carnage in C Minor. The girl who loved Poweglide. Bruticus standing behind the Combaticons.

    I'm not saying it might not be more enjoyable, but it's better at none of those things. At 5, given the chance to watch G1 or the movies, the movies win everytime.

    Nostalgia makes things better in our minds, but in reality they are not. If anything the movies are on par with G1 in writing. Animation it's not close. Action? Yeah right. Watching Prime ride Grimlock into battle and smash Cons was better than anything save Primes G1 battle charge to "The Touch". That's does still remain Primes best sequence ever, but the animation in the Dinobot charge and Forest battle would have made me, as a kid, push the cartoon aside.

    Why go to unrealistic extremes? My dad prefers his 64 Stang, but he knows the newer models are better cars, they just don't have that nostalgia tied to them.


    Opposite end of the extreme. Bay movies don't exist if G1 didn't happen, and we aren't arguing about this portrayal of Prime if G1 wasn't so good and iconic.

    It's like LeBron James and Mike Jordan. Best players of their respective eras, but not really comparable BECAUSE they came from different eras.

    I understand your criticisms. Personally, I'm glad there was too much action, that's how I remember the show and how I played with the toys. If I wanted to watch alot of talking, I wouldn't be watching Transformers. It let's me be a wide eyed kid again. That's why I appreciate the slightly toned down and more cartoon violence in AOE.

    I agree the brutality of the deaths is a bit much. I cringed at how Prime was killed in the movies, and how Prime was so brutal in ROTF and DOTM. AOE scales it back and gives it better context.

    Hell even 86 managed to make Megatron look merciless and brutal, and Prime heroic. In AOE , Prime has Lockdown dead to rights in the beginning and doesn't kill him at first. It made Prime seem to resort to killing in dire situations, and Lockdown was brutal enough that it felt like he deserved his comeuppance.

    Oh and bonus points for referencing the reign of President*Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew*Herbert Camacho.
    One of my favorite movies ever. I'm just waiting for "Ow my Balls" to air next year after Honey Boo Boo, the Pre teen Years.
     
  8. jamjam101

    jamjam101 Well-Known Member

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    Bay could have adapted a beloved G1 comic word for word or a favorite tv season into a full length movie and people would still create reasons shit on it. Lorenzo is right, they just make it personal...
     
  9. Huffington

    Huffington Banned

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    this right here is masterful...

    and by masterful I mean a stinking pile of shit.
     
  10. Darkwing48

    Darkwing48 Heroic Decepticon

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    I saw the first movie 4 times in theaters,
    the second movie 3 times,
    the third movie 5 times,
    but this last one I'm having trouble seeing it for the 2nd time.

    "So far, Age of Extinction has earned $175.4 million, and is trailing the last two Transformers movies by a wide margin. Based on its current trajectory, it's likely that this winds up between $245 million and $265 million."
    ---http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3869&p=.htm

    The people are speaking with their wallets. This movie could have been much better, even for a "mindless summer flick". "Shoot em up" was a great example of that. This movie lacked a proper plot and action to even compare. It's not the acting, it's the story and the lazy CGI. (for me) that's why it was the first time it felt like a near 3 hour toy commercial.

    It felt like "Battleship" with Transformers.
     
  11. Huffington

    Huffington Banned

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    Yup. The shine is wearing off. Hopefully the next one tanks and they decide to reboot without that hack on board.
     
  12. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    You just proved this guy's point...

    It's not about critically anaylizing the movie. It's about bashing Michael Bay because that's the current pastime for those who think they're the arbitrators of good taste.
     
  13. Roadbuster25

    Roadbuster25 Well-Known Member

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    Omg. Lorenzo di Bonaventura sad attempt of a spin is just laughable.
     
  14. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    Too funny.

    Really intelligent response. You totally showed him.

    What was even the point of you saying this? Cursing loses the meaning when you toss it around in such a mindless manner.

    Sorry you didn't enjoy it, but I doubt it's the Transformers movie itself. Movies are down in general this year. AOE outperformed Captain America, Spiderman and XMEN ' S opening weekends, and I would never have expected that. All of them did so with better reviews. Plus you're forgetting, due to world cup, AOE hasn't opened in a bunch of territories.

    Please believe that Paramount knows this and I doubt it's going to have any effect.
     
  15. Infosaur

    Infosaur Ancient Cybertronian

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    Excuses, excuses.

    (and yeah, he's kinda right but I'm not exactly saying that's a good thing)
     
  16. Awesomus Prime

    Awesomus Prime I rise, you fall.

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    Hey, no arguments from me on that one.

    I actually didn't understand what he was saying, the first time I saw the movie, and I was easily able to gather that they were on a prison ship, and that Optimus broke them out at the end. It really was not that hard to piece together.

    What I was trying to say is why do we even need an explanation for their forms at all...? There is no way to conceive a reason for a Transformer turning into a dinosaur, without it being completely dumb. I've already been sold on there being scorpion and tiger Transformers. Why are dinosaur Transformers now so far fetched that we need to devise a "clever" way of implementing them?
     
  17. Shmoptimus Prime

    Shmoptimus Prime Za Warudo! TFW2005 Supporter

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    The "Dynobots" were set up pretty well in IDW's comics. They followed someone to ancient Earth, needed Dino modes for the same reasons as the Beast Wars characters, then when they were deactivated their fake skin disintegrated. That's not dumb AND it's from the source material Plus it would only have taken a few minutes out of a 2:45min fucking movie.
     
  18. Awesomus Prime

    Awesomus Prime I rise, you fall.

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    That's.... still pretty dumb. And it would've been a huge random distraction and added more time onto an already overlong movie.

    Trust me, I know every single origin they've attempted. Honestly, I think the best one was where they were tortured and experimented on by Shockwave, in the Aligned Continuity, and even that one's still a bit forced.
     
  19. MV95

    MV95 @marlinfan1995 Veteran

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    How mature /sarcasm
    :rolleyes2 
     
  20. Scorpio

    Scorpio Well-Known Member

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    Tigers and Scorpions exist nowadays, the idea of a Transformer scanning them on Present Day Earth is not too far fetched. Dinosaurs however are extinctint and according to Lockdown he has had the Dinobots in captivity for a long while - does that mean he has been Earth during pre-historic times also, as their is no other reason for them to scan Dinosaur Alt-modes.

    The issue is more that they were intending to explain, then didn't. They had an explanation planned, promised us an explanation and they gave us nothing other than the opening scene.

    Not to mention the utter lack of reaction from many about seeing Dinosaur Transformers and a two-headed Pteradon. Seemed normal to people... which it shouldn't have.