‘Transformers’ Producer Answers Critics Biggest Problems With ‘Age Of Extinction’

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by OptimusJet, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. iconscons

    iconscons Well-Known Member

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    I think after 4 movies I can feel pretty comfortable not caring what critics, or the fans themselves say. I've seen fans eviscerate every movie, great toy, great online retailer and pretty much eat their own over the last 6 months. The movies are horrible! MP Grimlock is so bad it makes me sick! This company has such awful QC and too many delays, I'm bailing! Takara puts out shit! 3rd Party puts out shit! Pretty much, they hate everything related to the transformers brand that they post about most.

    I just sit back happy that no on listens to any of them because they truly don't matter. 4 movies with great revenues shows that they don't need to listen to anybody. If their poor film makers, their only poor by measures that don't actually matter in the grown up world. MP's and 3rd Party MPs keep getting made even if they're too chunky or part-forming or have loose shoulders.

    People talk and talk and post and post and none of it matters. Talk is cheap so people keep doing it.
     
  2. samtastic

    samtastic Herald of Wheelie

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    He made not one valid point, just being a whiny crybaby. Take the bad reviews with all your royalties and stop whining. Critics hate your shit because it's half-assed and should have been better, Lorenzo.
     
  3. The Iron Magnus

    The Iron Magnus Optimus's Face-in-a-Box

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    that's his point.
     
  4. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    Pacfic Rim was good, but it was as hamfisted and dim witted as Transformers.

    It definitely was written about as well. Don't get me started on the stereotypical characters! The goofball scientist, the Asian girl, the angry detached black guy... Movie had one good acting performance, Idris Elba. Everyone else was B Movie level. Only thing it did better is it wasn't as long. Hell the action was great, but they also had the benefit of most of the fights taking place at night.

    It's one reason I don't respect the majority of critics who tend to go with the general consensus. Pacific Rim was arguably a shorter Transformers movie with robots that had no character, villains with no real reason, and the most cliche'd of endings. The movie literally was every sterotype of Japanese anime in one. And I loved it.

    Why does Del Toro get a pass, but Bay doesn't?

    Please list what Pacific Rim REALLY did better. I like both films, but I honestly don't see much difference.

    I've been saying this all along. It's not like Bay or his Transformers movies are unknown. Hulk and Green Lantern both are arguably as known, and definitely have a longer history. Both films were disliked more by the public than the critics, and didn't receive sequels. Why does Bay keeping seeing success if his films are so crap? People don't buy stuff they don't like. Heck even the home releases make a lot of money. After 3 films, if they're so bad, you can't say it's cause they "suck or are badly made." When people overwhelmingly vote with their hard earned dollar, for something people so vocally hate on, you have to just accept that it doesn't suck, it's just not what you like or would prefer.

    Things that SUCK are Batman and Robin, Superman Returns, Waterworld, things that the masses dislike, and killed or prevented franchises from moving forward. The divide among fans is common. I loved Star Trek, but my cousin and his Trekkie friends HATE it. I don't get it, but they explained why they dislike it and how "it doesn't fit", and I was like "oooh m'kay."

    That's how the general public sees these flicks, and while they are not film art, they are good in that they entertain the audiences.

    This. So much. Although Cameron's editing is so VASTLY superior to Bay (it's not even close), Cameron gets the opposite of Bay... Avatar was cool, but aside from the superior editing, the story was weak, actors were average, characters were ALL sterotypes (I mean not a single character felt original) , if it wasn't for the colonel, there wasn't even a villain worth thinking about. Yet, high praises for a movie, that while visually beautiful, was one of the most boring, contrived things I've ever sat through. I enjoyed it, but I've never had a desire to watch it again.

    Imho, Cameron is still getting praise for his work in the 80s. I never understood the love and praise for Titanic or Avatar. Especially Avatar, since it was a decade long project.

    I would mention that Christopher Nolan is a fan of Bay's work. Not that his opinion matters, but I think the respect of your peers says more than a critic. You have to remember that critics criticize good films too. The Dark Knight had it's critics as well, and some made valid points.

    I refuse to listen to someone who reviews something they don't like because of the subject matter. Roger Ebert, great critic he was, said some dumb things, and had small minded opinions. I remember his "games can NEVER be art" statement. Lost tons of his respect with that dumb statement.

    Look I liked AOE while acknowledging it's flaws. Statements like "we deserve better" are arrogant vanity. We are entitled to nothing. The films exist to entertain, and if you aren't that's cool, but stop telling people what they like is crap or stupid because you don't like it. Stop saying "critics hated it so it's bad." That's weak. If you didn't see it, your opinion matters EVEN less, because you can't evaluate what you don't know. Bay may be the most hardheaded filmmaker, but he really did try and address some of the fans concerns in AOE, and he ven added something he though was "dumb". Most films follow the same formula. Iron Man 3 and XMen DOFP were some of the most boring underwhelming films I've seen, but I wouldn't call them crap. Just not my preference. I definitely don't get the high praise for DOFP, it was the worst telling of that story, featured tons of window dressing, had continuity errors out the ass, one good action sequence, and had the most pointless talking and exposition of any superhero film I've seen. Yet , according to 'critics' it is on par with the Avengers. I'd rather watch ROTF on infinite tape loop than have to sit through DOFP again. I'm not even a big XMen fan, but I noticed TONS of issues with the mythology.

    For example, I think Brian Singer is WAAAAY more of a hack than anyone. IMO, Reservoir Dogs is his one great film, and everything else was average to mediocre, with Superman being his low point. Critics praised it more than Zack Snyders Superman, and I currently know no one that would rate Man of Steel as the inferior pic. Critics are just as biased and prejudiced as the rest of us, they just get paid for their opinion. With games, movies everything, critics have failed me more times than not. If a critic doesn't have your tastes and sensibilities, I don't get how their opinion would even matter to you.

    Stop this childish foolishness of telling people "what you like is stupid" and the opposite is just as vain and ignorant. Fact is Transformers doesn't need to be the MArvel films, there are enough of those. I'm happy with my big dumb robot flick, AOE finally dropped the realism and went with the cheesy.

    Transformers could be better, but I could say that about any film.
     
  5. samtastic

    samtastic Herald of Wheelie

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  6. The Iron Magnus

    The Iron Magnus Optimus's Face-in-a-Box

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    not a transformers rip-off...



    a Gundam rip-off!
     
  7. samtastic

    samtastic Herald of Wheelie

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    inspired by it! and other anime.. And they did enough unique stuff i think :) 
     
  8. Starscreamer69

    Starscreamer69 Well-Known Member

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    Considering how popular Lockdown is, I wish they had kept him alive and had him escape in the end. The death of one villain, Attinger, would have been satisfying enough. He was easily the best villain we've had so far. I get that they wanted to set up Galvatron, but the idea of a bounty hunter who nopes it outta there when he sees a lost cause and is still active and doing different jobs around the galaxy just appeals to me.

    He was the Vader to the Creators, who are the more omnipresent shadow puppeteer Emperor like figure.
     
  9. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    If you can't argue with money you would have to call Spiderman 3 a great film. Given how rotten Spiderman 3 was I'll gladly argue with money.
     
  10. blaine71274

    blaine71274 Recovering Completist

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    I understand that. I was just saying most sci-fi movies are cheesy by nature. Plots aren't always great, but because we are who we are, we like it. Most of what TF's will get noticed for is design and effects. The original G1 series had better plots than the movies, I thought. Wasn't anticipating a fourth movie, probably should have stopped at three, they actually had plot element from G1. But again, it's entertainment, and that's what I go in expecting. Doesn't mean I would nominate it for awards. I mean I actually intentionally watched Sharknado. It was a trainwreck the whole way through, but I held on tight. Good movie? Not in the least. Intertaining, hell yes, lmao the whole time. And I watched Battlefield Earth too, very entertaining. Not looking for a Shakespearian experience when I go to movies, just entertainment.

    And I take it back, this movie did have some G1 elements, I was speaking of pre 86 movie. But Lockdown is dead, left his ship, and Prime's in space. Next Movie Galvatron takes ship with the armada and minions and chases Prime. He's has the seed. Almost 86 movie-ish. Or not.
     
  11. TCJJ

    TCJJ 121% Tank Engine

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    Well hey, I liked the movie a lot, and didn't care for the other three at all, so I don't mind. I generally take what movie critics say with a grain of salt. You've got to remember that they're not the target audience. They are also mostly cynical bastards who have seen a million movies, so everything blends together for them.

    Was Age of Extinction amazing? No, but I had a ton of fun with it. It has a lot of problems, but what it did well, it did very well.

    Now, before people continue bitching about critics knowing their stuff, go to that shitty website called Rotten Tomatoes - you know, the well-known movie critic site - and tell me you agree with them on your favourite movie. Chances are, you won't, because they're biased idiots. They gave James Cameron's shiftiest Avatar ~90, but they hate on plenty of other much more superior films. Age of Extinction is a much better film than Avatar will ever be, fact. Avatar sucks ass, but the critics ate it up.
     
  12. jestermon

    jestermon Well-Known Member

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    Make fun of those too they will laugh all to the bank.
     
  13. smkspy

    smkspy Remember true fans

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    oh man, you critic-hating obsessives come up with some real zingers.

    Fact.:bay 
     
  14. blaine71274

    blaine71274 Recovering Completist

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  15. Splendic

    Splendic bleep blorp

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    When people say the plot "doesn't make sense," they don't mean they were incapable of following it, they mean it was interminably stupid.
     
  16. MasterZero

    MasterZero Taking a Break

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    Unless they weren't paying attention to the plot. I mean, I can watch Titanic and say "The plot doesn't make sense." if I don't pay attention.
     
  17. blaine71274

    blaine71274 Recovering Completist

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    Well, my son loved it, and that's good enough for me. I'm 40, shouldn't matter to me about Transformers......BUT IT DOES!
     
  18. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    Stop making sense. Apparently that's not allowed here!

    Bravo sir. Bravo.

     
  19. TCJJ

    TCJJ 121% Tank Engine

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    Obsessive? I don't think so.

    Age of Extinction may not be an amazing movie, but it had visuals easily on par with Avatar, and most likely superior. The writing, whilst not perfect, crafted a better story with better characters. The robots were actual characters this time. In Avatar, all you had was Blue Man and Blue Girl with Angry Army Man. Who actually cares about any of them in any way? They were more so cardboard cutouts than almost any character from Age of Extinction (except maybe Chinese Guy in Lift).

    Also, here's something to think about: James Cameron makes crap movies. Aliens was crap. Alien was far superior. That may be my opinion, but objectively, it's also true.

    Just putting this out there: Pacific Rim is based primarily on tokusatsu, not anime (which is not to say it doesn't have anime influences, too, though).

    For the most part, I agree with your points, but I really did like Pacific Rim. I suppose it's MEANT to have more of a B-movie feel to it, along the lines of old tokusatsu monster films, and things like Ultraman.

    The thing I personally liked with Pacific Rim would be the characters. I know, you think they're stereotypical, and you're not entirely wrong, but a lot of people don't scratch the surface with Pacific Rim. You need to watch each character's body language carefully, analyse what they say, and really dig deep. If you put a lot of thought into it, the movie and its characters suddenly become a lot more interesting, and a little less stereotypical. Now, I know, it's not that fun when a movie does something like that, because you have to think, and no one really wants to think that hard when watching a dumb action movie. I guess being a big tokusatsu fan, I'm used to going over such things with a fine comb, and if you don't want to do that and don't want to analyse Pacific Rim to death as if it were a story in your high school English class, I totally understand. I just happen to do that with a lot of movies (although there are some where I wouldn't do such a thing).

    I have to say, though, that with Age of Extinction, I felt my distaste for Michael Bay starting to wane a little. Was it a perfect movie? Hell no. But he gained a little respect from me. I think that's a good start.
     
  20. LazyAza

    LazyAza MMC color go brrrr

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    Ahah hahahahaha man, this guy, he has no clue at all.

    Critics are negative towards this movie (and by extension the previous 3) because they are hollow, vapid, pandering schlock that doesn't even try to have a plot outside of the bad guys wanna be bad and the good guys wanna stop em.

    I can enjoy empty mindless entertainment which is all bay has ever made but their needs to be something more to it than just the basic fundamentals, their needs to be characters that are entertaining, visuals that are fun to look at and preferably some self awareness behind the films creation. Bays movies have none of that, all his characters are as thin as cardboard, endless steriotypes piled on to cliches and his visual filming style between shakey cam that makes it hard to even see what is happening, the nature of his action always going 110% speed and never ramping down (so it gets exhausting and monotonous fast) and just the awful awful design of the cgi in general just makes it impossible to enjoy for more than limited bursts at a time. Even then my personal enjoyment comes entirely from being an artist and animator and knowing what goes in to high level cgi and wanting to see the next interesting thing done with that.

    But that's maybe 10% of the movies for me when they actually do try something new. I liked Lockdowns design, I liked that most of the bots had more color and generally more visually well designed appearances this time around but they still suffer from the "cluttered" look bays visual team insists on using.

    Ultimately the sad reality is that Beast Wars, TF Prime and the IDW comics are all far far better written and produced pieces of work that cover the TF mythos in various ways than any of bays films and considering his movies had a 100 times their budgets it says a lot that hollywood is willing to throw so much money at something that really has nothing to it other than "hey look explosions!" and such a thing can succeed financially.

    It says that 99% of the audience for these movies are just complete idiots (which is no surprise given the target demo is like 6-17 year old boys) but yet no-one seems to care that this is considered ok, that these kids are being sold this garbage version of a franchise that has so much more to it.

    At least if these films weren't super duper crazy money machines I could happily ignore them but the fact they are so successful shows that their is a problem in society, that so many young boys are ok with seeing this kind of film and think that they don't need to ask for a little more. By all accounts they shouldn't make the money they make with what little they are and its really depressing that they do.