Having just been reinvigorated as a Transformers fan after being disgruntled with the way they were headed (anything after G2 was, for me, shocking) I am back with a vengeance and have just watched the 'Best of' Transformers release. While they have compiled great episodes with the exception of a couple I will ask about now, I have yet to review all of G1/2.

1) Electronium? Does that feature anywhere else because the way they make it out in this episode where the Decepticons become invincible wearing it, is that its naturally occuring on random planets. Opinions?
2) So, Unicron was built by a comedic little ape-elf? - seriously, made by a little ape man that GRIMLOCK can outwit. Out of any I can remember, this episode is pretty dumb all round.

I prefer the idea that Unicron and Cybertron were the Cybertronian 'gods'. Much like the Devil, Unicron could influence and be a physical threat and much like God, Cybertron expects his people to help themselves and be strong.

 

My personal theory for Primus and Unicron is that they're more than "gods" and "devils", they're actually a part of the universe itself - avatars of order and chaos.
Both were born at the dawn of time, along with the universe. Much like the Vorlons and the Shadows of Babylon 5, they existed to help the universe evolve and grow, but fell out along the way. Primus believes in absolute order, Unicron in chaos. Primus' ultimate goal, "til all are one" is to unite the entire universe in an ordered fashion, ensuring total peace - and ultimately, stagnation. Unicron sees the stagnation as a terrible thing, ending in the end of the universe as the stars burn out and the universe becomes cold. He therefore pursues a goal of maintaining a balancing amount of chaos in the universe, preventing stagnation and encouraging the universe to evolve to counter him, even if it does make him the enemy of the entire universe. I think on some level Unicron would realise and accept this as a fact of his being. Ultimately, Unicron's path would also lead to the end of the universe - unlike Primus' order, though, Unicron would eventually make the universe collapse in on itself, causing a new big bang and a new universe to rise from the ashes of the old one, thus unlike Primus' order, ensuring that the universe would continue to exist.

That's the basics of my theory behind the two of them. It gives Primus a major flaw in his reasoning, makes you question everything the Autobots stand for by fighting for Primus' goal of bringing order to the universe, and most importantly to me it gives Unicron a reason to exist and a motivation. He's never really been given much motive other than being the biggest threat going at any given time.

 

That is one interesting threory Sol (i like how you used the B5 reference too).

Heh, might have to adopt that as my way of seeing Unicron/Primus (not that i had a view point beforehand).

 

That's pretty much identical to how I see them, Sol; the cartoon explanation is laughable at best.

 

That is a good theory Sol, I especially like the idea of Primus being cause for stagnation. However, I cant entirely agree with Unicron being a force for change. The whole "Unicron creating a new universe after destroying the old one," that's really Galactus' goal, and I'd like there to be more of a seperation between him and Unicron.

For me, it's always been very simple: Unicron abhors life. Before the big bang, when the Universe was just a void, he simply slept in peace for as long as he could. But then life came to the universe, and it infuriated him. He hates life so much that as long as there's a single living thing in any remote corner of the universe, he'll be unable to go back to sleep. Therefore he elects to destroy it. Primus, as a result, is sent to stop him. Even if Primus favors order and stagnation, he is still a protector of life, and Unicron a destroyer of it. The only reason he stopped fighting himself was because he realized it was having no effect, so he elected to become God and encourage others to do his work in a different fashion, perhaps finding a more effective route that he missed. The idea of Unicron being the Devil seems to be somewhat wrong, as the Devil influences evil in others. It's true that Unicron has heralds that he has influenced, but those are his personal task carriers. The Devil does not want task carriers, he attempts to influence the entirety of humanity, to taint them away from God. Unicron has no need for such a goal, as he wants to kill life, not taint it.

As for the entity which creates chaos, I believe it is the Liege Maximo. He was one of the Original 13, and yet he does not follow the philosophy of Primus. In fact he is a very greedy individual, his only goal to become a God on the same level as his father. He is seemingly a flaw taken from Primus' own being. And, most importantly, he is the father of the Decepticon race. If it werent for him, the Autobots would've stagnated long ago, for they would've had no conflict. In addition to creating Megatron and the Decepticons as we know them, he also created Jhiaxus and the G2 Decepticons. The G2 Decepticons also followed a path of stagnation, as they sought to destroy organic life, and assimilate mechanical life. They felt everything should be as they were, the same way you believe Primus feels. However, I believe the G2 Decepticons were in fact following a goal which was not the Liege Maximo's own. The only reason he wanted them to take everything from the universe is because it furthered his goals of attaining power and reaching godhood. They were given a phony philosophy about order and assimilation, when all they were really doing was pooling resources for their master.

 

Well, the only other mention of electronium I can recall was during the G1 Dreamwave Ongoing comic days, in the Sunstorm arc, where Sunstorm's high Damage endurance was partially attributed to electronium in his armour. But it was more likely a throw-away fanwank reference more than anything.

My theory of the Primus/Unicron conflict is along the lines of what Sol has lined out. Rather than assign them arbitrary attributes such as being forces of Good/Evil, I always figured that their conflict was more about Order versus Chaos. Primus always struck me ,based on his portrayal in the original Marvel comics as a less than benevolent entity, adopting a rather cold and almost clinical approach pitting his creations against Unicron, befitting one who is an avatar of order. To be honest, I always felt that Megatron was better suited as the one to be chosen by Primus to lead his children, considering his motto of "Peace through Tyranny" and his brand of full totalitarian order would be more along the lines of Primus's goals. It also makes sense that Primus's children and body would be Mechanical in nature, as machinary are the embodiment of orderly perfection. I suspect that Primus originally never envioned his creations would gain sentience. After all sentience seems a combination of both order and chaos, with the ability to think freely in a chaotic manner, yet at the same time have the order of mind to discern things. I guess that this is what culmilated into what hapenned in Beast Machines.

Unicron also has a Mechanical bodydespite being the avatar of Chaos, yet he still has a few Organic traits incorporated in his design(Unicron was also originally supposed to be more organic during TFTM pre-production) I propose this theory to explain it as well make sense of the Primacron connection. Primacron was not his original name, but instead he was the first Prime Prima. Sent by Primus to build a mechanical structure to further entomb Unicron in his Asteroid prison, he was corrupted by Unicron, and under his will, instead remade it into Unicron's new mechanical body. Eventually, Unicron's corruption transformed him into this partially organic shriveled up husk known as Prima-Cron, and upon Unicron's body's completion, betrayed and attacked his former minion, leaving him broken, with few inklings of his former life as Prima, but still alive. And to this day, Primacron is deluded to the point that he believes that Unicron is one of his creations gone renegade.

As for the sentience of the Transformers race, I think that was Prima's last legacy before succumbing totally to Unicron's whims, which came in the form of the Matrix, which contained a combination of energy from both Unicron and Primus, Chaos and Order, to create the allspark from which all sparks come from.

 

a good theory. that is what i like to think. i really hated the primacron explanation.

 

Yeh, I prefer the anything over the Primacron disaster. That stuff is actually 'Electrum', I just watched 'Golden Lagoon' again.

 

Anything but that explanation - I agree.

 

The club comic says Unicron finds lesser beings offensive because of their self percieved importance.

And as it was said, Unicron and Primus are not like god and the devil because they are equals in power and both must exist to sustain the balance of all life. The difference is that it is Primus' neverending task to protect life from Unicron's wrath.

Primus and Unicron are supposed to be a non physical balance, a lifespark of the universe, a balance. The problem is that evil acts have given Unicron a physical body and he inflicts pain and suffering with it. Primus has to take form to confront him.

 

Well, i am kinda new with transformers, but if unicron was created by primacron, who or what was primus created by?

 

Primacron was only in the G1 cartoon. Primus wasn't in the G1 cartoon. So, they sidestepped that question quite easily.