Why hate Hitler? Everything he did, it was all in the name of rejuvenating his homeland, which was in a worse depression than the United States at that time, with people starving. All he was really trying to do was save his people. What a nice, fuzzy happy person!


/end sarcasm.

 

Nice...

to quote someone famous "the Needs of the Many, out weigh the needs of the few"

 

I didn't like his head design, I thought Nimoy was the wrong choice to voice him, and he's a two-faced prick. And also because of this:

 

 

I can't speak for others, but if I were confronted with the same choices and scenario, I would probably do what Sentinel did.

If I had to save the people and things I loved, at the expense of those I don't care about, I would without hesitation. I could live with myself knowing I committed something evil to preserve what I hold dear, but I won't be able to forgive myself knowing I did not exhaust every possible means.

 

^^^ Yup, that's exactly what that point is addressing. Nothing like a bit of moral relativism to make the evening wondrous...

 

Unfortunately, I don't care about having the same moral standards as your 'righteous' self. I do what I feel suits the situation, and I make no apologies for it. So please, purge your innards out.

 

He killed Ironhide, and he is nothing like the other Sentinel Primes.

 

He's still the mentor of Optimus. That's something.

 

Oh relax. I was only pointing out that all the worst villians in real history thought they were serving the greater good. I doubt you're actually capable of genocide. You just made that post right after I made my comparison and it kind of made my eyes bug out.

The Hitler/Sentinal comparison is totally apt. Both were trying to restore their people to greatness, both enslaved (and killed) those they saw as lesser to achieve their goals, both used those slaves as a workforce to increase their power, and both were convinced they were right. Their acts were practically mirrors of each other...Sentinel just got a Prime to the face a bit earlier in his career as a monster.

 

Fair enough then. Sometimes we can be thrust into exceptional circumstances, and end up doing what we normally won't, in the hopes of preserving something we believe in.

While I don't go out and intentionally hurt another person, if there was a tough situation where I had to kill to protect something I cared about, then I would have no qualms doing so. And I'm sure many others would.

After all, many of us here would incinerate an entire bee hive or ant hill growing in our garden, to protect our families. Many would kill colonies of gophers and moles, that affect their crop yields. Or in recent health scares, where millions of poultry and livestock were culled to prevent diseases spreading.

In such situations, we had no qualms taking hundreds or thousands of lives that we deem inferior to ours, to preserve our interests. I don't think Sentinel Prime saw it any differently. Just that we see it as an unspeakable evil, because we're the victims rather than the perpetrators.

 

Quite honestly, I really have taken a liking to Sentinel Prime. His alternate form is super cool, and the fact that he was voiced by Leonard Nimoy makes him awesome. And, he had some really cool lines.

 

Well I'm military, so I do have a bit of exposure to having to do things you'd really rather not have to do. Sometimes you do have to, and it really sucks. That's why I responded to you the way I did when you got mad....I know what you mean, I just disagree that it's applicable in this context

What you described was not the position Sentinel was in. The humans were not attempting to eradicate him or his way of life: In fact they were cooperating with him towards a common goal. The only thing we were guilty of was possessing something he wanted. He didn't even NEED it...Earth was a welcome home to friendly Cybertronians. But he wanted to be a God...he even said so.

At some level even he knew what he was doing was just totally evil...otherwise he would not have hidden his goals.

Destroying a beehive that's endangering your kids in the backyard or shooting/gassing a colony of gophers that's digging holes in your field which break the legs of your livestock is a far cry from obliterating an entire species of self-aware creatures simply to take their natural resources. Even hunting and killing other animals (something I do) is much different. Context is everything.

The whole "sentient" thing is a natural human response. It's why we hate the idea of mass-killing animals like primates, dolphins, elephants, etc. They're self-aware (or something very close) and that deactivates our predatory instincts. They have the capacity to feel and are individuals, and our natural response to that is respect and the desire to avoid making them feel unpleasant things. Sentinel had systematically justified himself to the point of shutting that off...just like every other leader in history who was responsible for genocide.

Not trying to be long winded...just explaining my whole thought process...heh. It's a movie, not reality, but I like to think about this sort of thing.

 

Sentinel probably saw Earth, and the human populace, as a means to an end. We had the resources, and the man power, to restore his home to its former glory. I don't think he wanted to wipe us out (aka commit genocide), but rather, use us to aid his interests (conquer, command and plunder).

Think of this way, if our cities were ruined and our people dying, and the solution lay within a wildlife preserve somewhere, we would plunder and strip it bare to fix our way of life first, regardless of its consequences on the flora and fauna there.

It's just the instinct of self preservation. That we'll protect the things we hold dear, at the expense of something else we deem less important (at that moment in time).

Adversity can make you lose perspective and logic. I cannot begin to imagine what it would feel like to lose most of your race, and witness the slow decay of your planet. That's probably what drove Sentinel (in this scenario) to do the things he did. At some point, he probably didn't care what the cost was anymore, he just wanted to achieve his aims. He didn't want Earth as his new home, he wanted to save his real home, and unlike Optimus, he had the tools and power to do it.

I suppose it's a choice between accepting the end of things you hold dear, or committing an acceptable evil (in that party's eyes) in the hopes of reversing it. If we were powerless to prevent a catastrophe, we would be resigned to the fact and accept it. But if we had the means to effect the outcome, the temptation to use it would be overwhelming.

 

Somehow Sentinel reminds me of a certain Hegemon I know of. Attacking helpless people in the name of freedom or the (human)rights of all sentient being is pretty common on 21e century earth. The choice Sentinel made is the choice all world powers in history have made. The Position of Optimus is the position of the lone moral high ground Christ figure. We all know what happens to Christ figures throughout history; we Kill them merciless because their religious blabber annoys one to death. So in short, SENTINEL YEAY, OPTIMUS NAY & DECEPTICONS FOREVER!!!

 

Definitely one of the weak points about Bay films. Unless it's a character you already know from history like Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto or a robot you already know from a Transformers series then it's really hard to name any of the villains from a Bay film. It feels like generic drug dealer, generic terrorist, or generic government bunghole instead of a character that has been carefully crafted to shine among the best film villains.

 

I'm not denying that he was a good character; his development was probably the best in the movies. It's more that I didn't like his actions.

 

His entire motivation is silly - as he could have easily done the same plot to revive his homeworld via help from the Autobots when he left Cybertron in the first place.

The betrayal makes little sense as he could have easily been revived and just helped the Autobots and revive Cybertron.

He wasn't evil - but he was really stupid. One of the most stupidest characters in the whole franchise - which is covered up by hiring a good voice actor and by having him actually kill another useless character 'Ironhide'

Everyone is angry because he was close to actually doing something worthwhile and killing Optimus and ending the franchise - which would have gave the movie trilogy an emotional and satisfying conclusion (With Bumblebee taking the mantle of leader) and would have also sent a deep message about the horrors of the Cybertronian war - and war in everyday life.

Its also due to his character originally being a good character - though a jerk. Here he is just a stupid character.

--

In short;

I don't hate the character, however he is a really stupid character so I can understand why some people might hate him. The fact he shares no similarities with his namesake is also annoying - especially seeing as he was originally meant to be Ultra Magnus. Bringing up a random reference to G1 - does nothing but proclaim you as someone either trolling or a 'G1'ner.

 

He's one of the few well written characters in the movies but yeah he's a dick.