Even though you're forgetting the fact that Starscream did prove to be still competent that's able to save his hide from Megs,Soundwave ebing hard to take down and Shockwave being able to take blows.

 

I think it is for reasons I said earlier: Megatron made system in which all benefited. No one caste benefited more than another as it did during the time before the war while under the rule of the High Council and previous Prime(s).

In Megatron's system, all work towards the same goals: fixing Cybertron's broken caste and the restoration of Cybertron.

The High Council and Primes before Optimus made it easy for Megatron to make them the bad guys in all this. Too many Cybertronians were disenfranchised under the old scheme, what's worse is that those in Iacon disproportionately reaped the rewards--no wonder the Decepticons look upon the Autobots with such disdain.

Without a doubt Megatron skewed things his way, but he didn't need to try all that hard. The resentment the lower caste was feeling had reached its boiling point. All they needed was someone to rally behind and when Megatron came forward, they followed.

Not everyone aboard the Nemesis or behind the Decepticon cause is a soldier, we saw in season one that some of them are Cybertronian civilians. Megatron didn't force anyone's hand, he didn't need to--things were THAT bad 

I don't think bodies/shells were given to anyone, I think that the Vehicons are of a particular caste, and members of the caste share a likeness, which also happens to be like a uniform.

I wish Hasbro would be bold and tell a story that is more gray than black and white. The Transformers' past much more than good versus evil, there's a lot of gray areas and good and evil on both sides of the line, but I don't know if that is ideal story telling for a children's show.

Good versus evil is easier and everyone loves a hero.

Well, he was one of them. I think it was easier for him to make the case than it was for Optimus to defend the actions of those he represented and stood for--why trust a Prime? The Prime before Prime is rumored to have made the caste in the first place, and the Primes were allied with the High Council who oversaw the caste and governance of Cybertron.

Optimus' promise of change fell upon deaf ears. Orion Pax was what Cybertron needed--he just came around too late to make a peaceful difference 

I don't think it's that they are so weak, but rather that the Autobots have better soldiers.

What remains of the Autobot army is a bunch of highly trained individuals. There are hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of Decepticons that follow Megatron, but many of them weren't soldiers. Sure, some were gladiators like he was, but many became soldiers during the uprising. Cybertron's law enforcement and army were Autobots.

I suspect that the Autobots were out numbered when the war for Cybertron began (this was the case in G1, and I think it is today too), but even so, they did considerably well fighting a much larger army. Megatron beat the Autobots by using numbers against them, and I think this is why he was looking for soldiers when the series began and why he wants a new army now. He doesn't have skilled soldiers that can go toe to toe with the Autobots, thus he needs to beat them by overwhelming them with numbers.

I guess, but with so few Autobots in the series, I don't know how you can make them seem even more of an underdog than they already are:/

 

Makes us appreciate Beast Machines alot more, then we did doing its original airing, they did the whole underdog right, and in that show the heroes being outnumbered actually posed a threat to them from beginning to end.(The Maximals got beat up and came close to death quite alot)

 

I can stuff about Starscream, but it's mostly the new Decepticons. (Ie: not the first three.)

 

They tried this with Beast Machines remember and it went right over peoples head, that story wasn't about good vs evil, as Megatron wanted peace and harmony, but had a different way than Optimus wanted it. Optimus believed in hope and spiritualism while Megatron thought control and efficiency was needed for peace, cause from his perspective free will and emotions caused all the past wars, in the Hate Plague episode Optimus himself questioned if Megatron was right.(Naruto has this type of story)

 

But Megatron in BW was protrayed as a meglomanic who no regard for even his own men which is evidant of the way he killed Quickstrike and Inferno in the series finale. I doubt he wanted to control Cybertron to bring order but to engulge in his own twisted agendas. That's another reason why it felt out of character of Megatron to me because it didn't made any sense of why did Megatron come to that conclusion.

 

I believe that Megatron originally wanted peace and order, but the power went to this head and corrupted him.

 

Fair point he did mentioned that in the first episode of BW but I'm not sure that he'd go back to his original goal once he went bonkers in BW.

 

Now that I think about it Beast Machines didn't do the gray type of storytelling first, Beast Wars kinda did it to, the Maximals weren't portrayed as pure saints(Protoform X project), and the Predacons were hinted at having legimate reasons to want to rebel, the Pax Cybertronia created after the Bot-Con war pretty much put the Maximals in control of everything and the Predacons(being descendants of the losers) were placed as second class citizens. Megatron for the starting the Beast Wars was similiar to Gihren Zabi/Colonies for starting the One Year War, both had legimate gripes but with to insane and meglomanical methods that resulted in alot of destruction and death.

I have a theory on Megatrons change. Megatron losing the Beast Wars, was probably responsible for his new view in Beast Machines, losing caused him be very bitter and disillusioned the great change he was hoping didn't happen. After getting back to Cybertron he could rejoined the Predacons, but what was the point starting another Great War that could destroy Cybertron like the Bot-Con wars of the past. After trying to change Cybertron through time manipulation failed and knowing the other Predacons were waiting to start another war, had him come to conclusion that the cybertronian race cant change from what it was in past, and it would be better for the race to unified under one power and mind, no emotions meant no love/hate or factions to fight. Megatron in a way was taking the "Till all are one" saying to it's next logical extent. So at this point Megatron was Madara Uchiha.

 

Now that I can see being logical. If Beast Machines did that explanation in the show then I'd be fine with Megatron's character change but it still doesn't explain about why Megatron started to hate organic things since in the BW he loved the power each Beast Mode he got gave him.

 

Well, the Vehicons definitely FIGHT the same way. They all shoot without aiming and hope they hit something. I'm not sure if they all have the same voice, but I think it could be argued that they act and think very similarly.

They do seem to be free-thinking individuals, but I would argue that Starscream's clones were too. They did all share his personality, but they argued with each other when they were confronting Megatron, which makes me think that they were capable of having different thoughts and opinions.

Also, Dreadwing and Skyquake were twins, which makes them natural clones. They shared some sort of mind link, yet they were clearly free-thinking individuals. And what about the Insecticons? They share a mind link, which makes me think they are clones. Yet Hardshell had his own name and seemed to have his own personality.  

I'll give you that. I don't know a lot about war, or rules of engagement, or what constitutes a war crime. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Optimus has a weird sense of morality. He was proud of Arcee for NOT killing Airachnid in battle. Yet he seems to have no problem with his troops slaughtering dozens of Vehicons in battle.  

 

My take on that is because Optimus knows that the Vehicons aren't going to make Arcee lose her better judgement and be coruptted by killing Vehicons in battle whereas Airachnid has shown to bring out Arcee's dark side and Optimus didn't want that to make Arcee lose her path to being an Autobot.

In other words Optimus isn't against killing Vehicons or even the main Decepticons when the situation calls for it it's that he's against having the Autobots lose their sight on how to be a true Autobot as well as better people.

 

They all have their own unique voices.

Fighting in a similar manner is not proof that one is a clone another.

Even the Romans knew the importance of having a battle plan. Having a set of actions for soldiers to memorize and carryout can make for an effective army. Soldiers to today go to boot camp and have numerous field training to further refine their battle skills. It does seem weird to me that soldiers would have a similar or identical battle plan, especially if they were all taught by the same person.

They knew his very thoughts and in turn he knew theirs--Dreadwing shared a connection to Skyquake, but their connection was more like the ones twins of our world have, which is the ability to sense when their twin is hurt or in danger. Starscream, however, could actually SEE/HEAR/FEEL what his clones were going through and what they were up to.

I think the Insecticons work more like ants do, in that they make collective decisions, helping one another rather than helping themselves. The writers of Transformers Prime, however, went beyond that by making them all telepathically connected to their queen, Arachnid.

Arcee's was bent on revenge, not justice and that was Optimus' problem with Arcee's feud--she allower her anger and thirst for revenge to consume her and impair her judgement. She herself and those around her in danger, and that was a no-no.

Optimus would have had no issues with Arcee killing Airachnid on the battlefield if she was in the right mindset, but that was never the case--she always leapt before looking.

A clear head beats all--man, were the roles reversed in the final encouner 

 

I actually think of them to be more like Scourge's Sweeps. Despite the fact that there were only 2 created in the movie (retconned to 3 sweeps, and no Cyclonus clone after the movie), and yet I cant even count how many died, but yet there were always more. I remember one episode where there was a (cheap animation technique) of a repeated loop of Sweeps flying in a line, way more than 3 of them. I also remember them speaking for themselves, once even begging Galvatron to be saved from the fate of falling to his death (although Galvatron cared not).

 

Sometimes I do feel sorry for them like when they're killed with no mercy whatsoever, sometimes I hated them, like when they defeated Cliffjumper. Aren't there some Vehicons which are just miners and not warriors?

 

When it comes to war it's killed or be killed, man.

I don't know if I'd say that Vehicons were killed without mercy as they continued to fight until their sparks were extinguished. We've only seen one miner, really, but I don't think it matters what affiliation the worker in the mine once he/she opens fire on you...

The Ratchet went after was different, he was trying to flee (no fight given) and Ratchet chased his chassis down and proceeded to beat the Energon out of him and then tortured him for information--that's not cool.

 

Seems to me that Hardshell was simply the alpha Insecticon.