"Dinobots, DESTROY DEVASTATOR."



Try again.

You're the one with no argument. So the Decepticons could never FREE Megatron again? Really?! They only way that could work is if the Autobots killed every Decepticon EXCEPT Megatron. Which I'm sure you would think is worse.

The bottom line is that if he is imprisoned and not killed, he will eventually get out or be freed. There is no way around it. And even if there were, it would mean you were imprisoning him FOREVER, because he will never get old and die. And you don't think that is cruel?

And lol@ "Tried". Tried by whom? They have no planet and their race is nearly gone thanks to the war. How do you know what kind of legal system they even ever had in place anyway? Why do you assume it was identical to ours? The purpose of a trial (on Earth) is to establish facts so as to determine guilt. The Transformers don't need to establish facts. They are robots with computer memories. There aren't conflicting eyewitness accounts open to interpretation. All they see are facts. They all already know what happened.

 

You have no intention of discussing something, and are just dissing what I said for the heck of it, even if you have to come up with "facts". If they are robots with computer memories, why do they show feelings? They see everything "as is" but yet they show emotion about it. Emotion is the basis of what makes ppl have diferent interpretations of facts.
I'm done with you, there is no point in arguing...

 

What does that even mean? How does one preclude the other?

I'm sorry you can't take having the massive holes in your "logic" pointed out to you and feel like you need to run away. But you don't seem to have any problem making sarcastic, smug and patronizing comments to others. Why is that?

 

Lol this is all nuts.

btw the comment about G1 prime not dying if he was like movie prime, Great! but then all the decepticons he shot on his way to Megs would be dead too, and there really wouldn't be much of a movie after that, cause he'd probably b-slap rodimus for getting in the way and never have given the 'sterner stuff' comment as he'd have already blown megs head off and ripped out his spine by that point. Starscream would have lead the leftover decepticons to their own demise and Unicron would have probably gone "Oh hell no, Optimus is too crazy" and went on to devour the Junkion planet instead.

Lol instead of all the kids crying cause optimus died, they'd have cried because of the graphic robot violence. "Mommy, I had nightmares of Optimus ripping off my face! Nooo!"

 

Roccondil, him saying we will kill them all is indeed in character. He wasn't going like "WOOHOO LET'S KILL THEM!" Or even Lennox' "Let's kill these things." He said "We will kill them all." Battle plan, fact, etc.

Optimus does kill 'Cons, and not just in the movies, after all.

Also, you just ignored every other point in that post. Might it have something to do that you cannot logically counter it in any way?

 

lol!

 

Optimus killing cons is indeed in character. It's just the way he goes about it. He sounds too violent, too un-heroic spouting insults and one liners to the cons while he kills them. I won't say he wasn't right in what he did. It's just the way he did it. Like I said a million pages ago on this thread, he could have said "I'm afraid we'll have to kill them all". That would be much more prime-ish. I know you like examining the expressions, and so do I. I felt prime's regret when he killed sentinel. I didn't feel that when he said he would kill everyone. I only felt anger and need for revenge, and that's not heroic or noble. Also, when he, for instance, ripped out shockwave's eye, shockwave was already out of comission. He could just have shot him or what ever like he did sentinel and demolishor, but he had to be violent about it for no reason. I understand the need for us to see the killers of our inocents being punished, but that's what anti-heroes do, not prime.

I didn't counter the other points bc we would only be discussing what ifs, and that would prove fruitless for the both of us

 

When Optimus says, "We will kill them all," it's not anger. It's resolve. They are preparing to go up against a much stronger opponent, knowing they are the planet's one final hope. It's a handful against an army.

 

If he said "I'm afraid we have to kill them all." then there would be less conviction. Less resolve, as SouthtownKid said. More doubt. Optimus is rarely one for doubt, except in himself, which happens only on occasion.

When he said "We will kill them all." he had anger in his face, but that wasn't really for revenge. What revenge? They didn't do anything to them right then and there, they shot humans. (Which, to him, is even worse.)

He could have just shot him, but that would have taken longer. He's less about punishment, more about ending them so they can never again do these things. If someone goes millions of years only getting worse, never better, there really isn't any chance of them changing right at the end. Vader? Not millions of years. Jetfire? Never did anything wrong, really. He just made mistakes and was tricked.

 

So your logic is no one who is dangerous should ever be taken prisoner but executed on the spot. There is always a chance that if a group wanted them out badly enough they could spring them. Even a chance someone dangerous could escape on their own so lets just kill them just in case.

Instead of executing the criminals and the criminally insane as a civilized society we try to find better ways of securing them rather than saying hey a murder escaped prison in Arizona quick lets kill Charles Manson before he can try it.

 

I'm just saying things the way I felt them. Optimus in TF rime also showed resolved when he went to fight megatron at the end of season one, but never did he spout one liners like movie prime. And optimus went for shockwave's guns arm. He could have shot the dome and then shot shockwave, who was lying on the floor missing half his torso. But that did not happen, and what happened did not seem heroic to me. It just seemed that he was killing the cons because he was pissed with them.

Oh, and Vader did redeem himself by the end of the trilogy. He turned away from the dark side to save luke. That's the whole point of his relation to luke, and what proves that luke was always right about him. But yes, you're right, true evil never turns. Once again, LOTR shows this very well. Never, in any way, would an orc turn from the Dark Lord, or would the Dark Lord himself become good. The trilogy goes to great lenghts to show that once you go bad, there's no way. But what they do show, is that it's the heroe's job to try anyway

 

Yea, announcing "we will kill them all" ain't anger at all. Saying stuff like "it ends today" or "by the end of this day, one shall stand, one shall fall" is anger. Get REAL !

And might I remind everyone that we humans created the Transformers franchise, so everything we've seen are a reflection of human behaviour, thought, culture, values, etc. So everything Transformers have done CAN be judged by us.

Stop thinking in such complicated lines. If he said, "we'll have to kill them all" plus a little phrasing, it would have the dual implication of him fearing/not liking what he has to do, and also accepting the fact he has to do what must be done.

Ok, I'm sorry. Are you for movie Optimus or against ? I'm pretty sure he'd want payback for the humans.

How long would it really take to HEAD SHOT a guy ?! Or crush Shockwave's head when he was down ?

 

Ok but thanks to Megs's war Prime is literally in position of judge jry and executioner. Not to mention if humans hate autobots that much theyll really not like megatron that much.

"Dinobots, Destroy Devastator!" TFTM

"Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost"TFTM

"Remember those creatures are flesh and blood, not unfeeling machines like the Decepticons." Dinobot island part2

"Amazing. A booby trap that actually captures boobies." Prime target (here he actually does get some joy out of the depticon in pain)

 

It.

Is.

Resolve.

He is announcing his intent to go up against a much stronger force, and his intent to win anyway, despite the odds.

So no one is able to ever write science fiction? We are incapable of imagining alien species?   Well, I guess some people in the thread are.

Please. Just take it to fan fiction.

Good lord, NO, that is not my logic. We are humans living on planet Earth. Why do people keep ignoring this? Megatron was held under the dam for 100 years. If he was a human being like us, that would have worked perfectly. That is why we incarcerate people. But to an immortal robot, it is nothing. It didn't even slow his stride. How hard is that to understand? If you lock him up, you aren't ending his plans, you are only pausing them briefly and making them someone else's problem. THEY AREN'T HUMANS. And not only will he be perfectly fine when he eventually gets out, but he is, himself, a weapon. How soon was it from the point he got free in Transformers '07 until he had killed again?

That is different than Manson or any other human criminal. Manson has been incarcerated for a fraction of the time Megatron was, but if he was released today, as offensive as that would be, he would be mostly harmless. Because as with all humans, he has aged and become frail. That's why we incarcerate people. We hold them until we decide they are no longer a threat. Well, for Megatron, that is NEVER. As long as he lives, he will always be the same amount of threat. So your plan is to hold him forever. But like everyone else who suggests this, you have no answer to why permanent purgatory is not as bad or worse than death. You refuse to think things through that far. All you know is that killing is bad. Never mind what we do to each other in life.


And there IS no "in a civilized society" for the Autobots. Their society is GONE. What you see is pretty much what there is. Their world and all life on it is dead. Optimus dismantled a dangerous and uncontrollable weapon so that the same thing wouldn't happen to other, innocent planets.

 

And with that, you've completely dodged my point.

Yeah, sure. NOT.

 

Exactly

Another one I Like is When Megatron Throws a Rock Completely Misses Optimus
and Optimus Laugh at him and Says "your aims Improving Megatron!"  

 

TFTM is an outlier. Realism is blown out of proportions.

the 3rd line was just saying Decepticons are cold-hearted. Hardly trash talking.

4th - I think the writers got a kick out of it, and so did Peter Cullen.

 

No, I've refuted it. You claim it's impossible to write or imagine alien species who approach ethical questions differently than we do. I suggest that is a shortcoming you possess that you are trying to project upon the rest of us.

And with the fanfic thing, all I'm suggesting is that if slight rewrites for tone or to make everyone nicer and less morally ambiguous makes you happy -- fine. Go write it that way for yourself. Not everyone agrees with you that your rewrite is an improvement.

Realism is blown out of proportions only in TFTM? As opposed to what...?

 

TFs are immortal? Look at Jetfire, the very definition of aging. Sure it's implied they can at least extend their lives with Energon, but haven't seen so much as a a scrap of that stuff in the entire trilogy.

 

yeah, and never do we see in those lines "we'll kill them all". He even says "...no matter the cost", as in "I'll do this bc it has to be done"