Hasbro allowed Ironhide to die because it was supposed to be the final film. So long as he appeared in some capacity they didn't care (and quite frankly he had a better showing in DOTM than in ROTF despite him dying halfway. In Fallen, he was just kind of in the background all movie). Same with Megatron. They were expecting good sales, but not nearly the smash hits that would cause them to decide not to let it die and make at least two more. If they did, they'd probably not kill so many guys off.

And with the next movie, Hasbro might twist arms for some retcons or resurections. Remember Megatron was only supposed to be in one movie initially.

 

So all the hype of expecting Megatron to be revived again is quite slim for TF4?

 

to quote what is being linked:


"Posted by:CalumDecember 6, 2011 This article is ******ed. Where does Michael say he's going to do a fourth film? Nowhere...he says that he's working on pain and gain and the three disc transformers trilogy box. this is horrid reporting, he doesn't say he's working on tf4 anywhere. he says reports about tf4 and tf5 are wrong despite reports."

 

Bonecrusher - Had 7 toy releases BEFORE movie 1 and was in G1, Beast Wars, Armada, Energon...

Brawl - Had at least 3 American toy releases before the movie, and is very familiar to fans of Devastator...

Devastator - Most popular combiner of Transformers lore. The name is VERY heard of.

Frenzy - Soundwave partner. Again very familiar.

Once again, aside from Barricade and Blackout (who still had toy releases outside of Japan before the movie), all of these characters are familar name who HasTak has used, can market for nostalgia and are familiar in the lore...

Overlord = One (admittedly badass) toy, Japanese fiction appearances, and his appearance in LSOTW. That equals approximately ZERO marketability.If you were a suit, would you really bank on him over Galvatron, Unicron, hell any of the 86 cast who have a fanbase and recent toys? Doubtful.

Ummm... Just no. Sentinel is a PRIME AND an Autobot. Anything with a Prime behind it is going to sell. That's why Sentinel Prime flew... and the Fallen is tied to the Primes... another thing that made him usable. He's supposed to be a badass Judas Iscariot.

Overlord has NO ties to any existing American fiction... IF they used him he would, most likely, have approximately ZERO resemblance to Overlord.

In a movie series that was able to be translated well from a solid script, Overlord would work as a sort of tragic villain. In the Bayverse, where he can't even give tragic heros depth.... no.

No people would not. His ass kicking wasn't due to an incomplete script... it was due to Bay rushing and not getting enough footage. He even said this himself.

Constant mention of the Fallen? Eh.. that's questionable. Most people I saw it with the first time forgot who he was by the time he just appeared for no reason... Megatron and Starscream return to the screen before the Fallen, and lead the attack in Egypt. Shit Megatron, Starscream, Scorponok and Devastator all do more than the Fallen. Shit, Optimus Prime doesn't even know who the Fallen is.

Palpatine is in no way considered above Darth Vader. You cannot be serious when you say that. Kids do not dressup as Palpatine. Palpatine has not been a playable character in games. The Death Star toy does not transform in Palpatine. Darth Vader is the face (lol) of Star Wars.

With Palpatine, they took the time to build him up... he loomed in the background in part V. He gets beaten by a faceturn from his most trusted associate (aka a sneak attack) while he's killing the hero of the trilogy.

Not to mention, he was never built up, even in appearance, to be a supreme physical threat... he's always been built up as a more cerebral foe. The Fallen was built up to be this guy that beat ALL the other Primes, to the point they had to kill themselves to stop him, he inspires Megatron and an entire movement... and he gets killed without influencing anyone, without doing any real damage to Optimus in a 2 on 1 fight, he never even gains the upper hand. He's built up to be this nigh indestructible guy, and does jack all shit.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief that you would even compare the Fallen to Palpatine. If anything, they TRIED (and failed) to make the Fallen a robotic stronger version of Palaptine, but didn't take the time to make him a real looming threat. I can accept the blame of the poorly organized script, but you should never, EVER, EVER EVER EVER compare the two of them again.

Almost kills Optimus? You mean when he snatches the Matrix? I never saw a point where Optimus was ever shown to be in real danger, or had any problem getting his hand on the Fallen.

I'll give you the military thing, but they had to give him something cool to do.

Yep. Probably one of the best parts of the movie. Even then, almost noone gave a fuck who the Fallen was, because he wasn't doing SHIT. Poor scripting, yes, but by the time we get back to the Fallen, we've pretty much forgotten him.

You're comparing Sentinel to Straxus? Umm ok. Straxus one off non speaking background appearance in Animated is not comparable to Sentinel's character (who was there in the whole show). Once again this proves my point tho... HasTak will take a chance in a CARTOON, but not a movie, because so much more has to be invested. Not to mention that Sentinel in Animated was SUPPOSED to be Rodimus, but Hasbro didn't want him to be tarnished. So Sentinel was used instead.

Sentinel Prime in the movie was developed as Ultra Magnus. Sentinel Prime was likely used because of his mention in ROTF, and a Prime is more marketable than Ultra Magnus. At any rate, both names were in play BECAUSE OF THE RECENT use in fiction.

LSOTW was a great read.... but not quite mainstream.

Reasonable enough idea, but if Hasbro was going to use Straxus, they would have named the toy of him Straxus. Seeing as they didn't even call him Straxus on his classics toy (clearly aimed at older fans who would remember him), it's doubtful he's high on the list.

All signs point to no slowdown of movie Bee toys... Look at Prime Bee.

Hasbro only ran with the Fallen BECAUSE THEY STILL HAD MEGATRON, STARSCREAM and SOUNDWAVE toys they could sell.

You're suggesting using a main villain with no marketability as a focal point. The Fallen got one 'mainline' mold, and no toys since then. Megatron got a leader class, and a voyager, and he wasn't even the main villain.

If they bring back a big seller like Megs or Screamer or Soundwave, someone they can focus the villain toys on, then maybe you'll get Overlord or someone. They can't hang the villain side on Straxus, Jhixaus and Overlord... If they could they probably would so as not to get so much hatemail from angry Con fans.

They can kill off Ironhide because that makes him a martyred hero. That won't detract from sales. Not to mention it was the final movie... So it wasn't supposed to affect future marketability.

The tone is different because Michael Bay wasn't taking any direction at this point... It's been pretty well stated that he was listening to alot more input in movie one (something he really didn't want to do). Once the movie was a hit, he went 'bigger and more awesome!' You can see the 'Spielbergian' influence in TFTM, with the IRobot level of interaction, general banter in between the Autobots etc. In DOTM, it's like everyone talks AT each other. Hell in TFTM, when Prime gives his Hoover Dam speech, it seemed like Ironhide, Ratchet and Jazz were having an intimate discussion with their leader. In DOTM, when Prime gives his final 'kill em all' rally cry, it seems like he's talking to himself. No gets fired up,or anything. Half the time, it's like the Bots don't know the other ones are there. Those little touches (shit like Ratchet telling Bee 'you fought bravely') all a lot fewer and far inbetween in DOTM. The were all throughout TFTM. Honestly, the Cons talk to each other more than the Bots do.

And just... no. He didn't need to scale things up, he even BULLSHITTED and said he was going to scale it down and get more personal. It got more personal only because of the shit between the Primes. He could have easily had Megs and the Cons go on an old fashioned revenge mission, trying to kill Sam and the Autobots.

I'd love to see what he did well besides the action... I've been a Bay fan for a long time, and he's never been good at story telling. Best one he did was the Island (and sadly it underperformed).

Not to mention he butchered the story. What's the point of having Megs trying to save Cybertron, when you don't setup his motivations or show his remorse or any of the things that made his deal with Sentinel make sense?

He cut out ALOT of what would have made the story cohesive.

How did Ferrari help promote the movie? You think as many people WOULDN'T have seen it if the Ferrari badge wasn't shown?

They didn't fund the movie, just provide a beautiful car. He could have stayed true to the script and made the actual product better, instead of showing a cool car mode. They used an Audi without the badging for Sideways brief appearance. Why not drop Ferrari, stick with the story, and make a better movie? You changed a character name and fate based on the whims of a car maker? Pfft. That's weak.

Slick visuals DO NOT make a better movie. They can improve it, but not make it better.

I'm glad you enjoy being a Bay apologist, but Bay's editing skills have always been questionable. You can try and say a penny is alot of money, and to a poor man it is, but in reality it's not worth much.

Huh? What expression of sadness? He DOESN'T EVEN MENTION HIS NAME?! C'mon man. A close friend of yours is brutally murdered, you know who did it, and you show no expressions of grief, don't say his name, don't have ANY of his friends or associates mention him? Not even the humans? Not even Sam?

I heard of being devil's advocate, but things like what you suggest here are on the verge of trolling/flamebaiting. Even casual movie peeps found it disturbing IH got no mention. Even Jazz got at least a "we couldn't save him" "aww Jazz."

Nope, but hiring a model over an actress shows questionable decision making skills, especially in replacing a lead role in a blockbuster trilogy. Replacing Megan Fox ain't hard, but it just demonstrates again he rushes into things.

Bay's cuts are jarring quite a bit of the time, he doesn't do transitions in tone well. It's becoming obvious to me that you are into these movies merely for the 'cool shit blowing up' aspect.

Yep. Just like we would crucify a director if he made Superman no longer have an alter ego. It's been an essential part of the characters even sense, and part of what shows they are more than just cars.

Once again, I can see you care more about cool shit blowing up than good movies and solid story telling.

Yes because dick jokes are always needed to improve a movie.

So he shows the Decepticon jets shooting the building down... but the driller was necessary to accomplish that? With the 200 hours of rendering needed for the driller in that scene, we could have gotten a memorial for Ironhide, an actual fight for Starscream and Shockwave, an extended fight for Megatron, hell maybe an actual ending, more personal scenes for the bots interacting and still had some time to blow.

Mindblowing my ass. I'm impressed by ILM, but more fights and banter in between the bots while fighting would have been more exciting and would have given the audience more to cheer about.

Noone knew Sentinel was going to faceturn except those filming. He didn't need to LIE and say how important SHockwave was, he should have just STFU. He made all of the Shockwave fans excited, look forward to seeing the movie, and then gives them the big letdown of releasing it was all lies.

He didn't need to sell Shockwave to misdirect Sentinel. I don't know why he did, we all knew Megs was gonna be back and Shockwave would appear. Lying about Shockwaves role and importance only frustrated fans... the general populace wouldn't know or care.

Just like you pulled that bs about 'misdirection' out of thin air.

Dude, are you serious? Megatron get his ass kicked in one hit, Optimus Prime cuts off heads and spits John McClainesque one liners, Bumblebee is a rambo level warrior, Shockwave is a dumb lumbering brute.

I love how you try to break a cohesive thought into two sentences to discredit them. It's not an opinion, it is a FACT that an Optimus Prime before ROTF and DOTM has never been a bloodthirsty one liner spouting killing machine. If Bay took time to learn about the character, (and cared), we wouldn't have gotten the take on movie Prime ROTF and DOTM presented. Case closed. You can argue it if you want to, but that alone says it.

Not to mention his historically inaccurate portrayal of Pearl Harbor shows he does not research things and then try to do justice by them. He's always about doing 'his version.' If he couldn't show respect to those that lost their lives at Pearl Harbor by trying to make a realistic take on it, you think he shows anymore respect to fictional characters in a franchise he called a 'dumb cartoon'?

No. You don't have to show them as being happy about it though. He never stops to show that the Autobots regret the killing and wish there was another way. Of course if he can't even show that when it's been part of Optimus Prime since forever, I guess it's moot to expect it of anyone else. In these movies the Autobots are the aggressors... Before this they were always trying to work out a resolution that didn't involve genocide, because of Prime.

You pulled that out of thin air. Opinions vary from person to person.

I could make 3 brilliant shots in a basketball game... breath taking, once in a lifetime shots. But if I shoot 3 for 17 and we lose the game by 10 it's all wasted.

People dislike Bay because he rushes shit. It makes it worse because he is VERY talented, and if he took time to put more polish on things, they'd be better. Just like ROTF. He could have told the studio they had to push things back because of the strike, but instead, he rushed and put out a half assed movie. He's a underachiever... he could have surpassed James Cameron, Speilberg, George Lucas... but he refuses to slow down, improve his editing and story telling, and instead focuses on action porn.

That's why people complain about him. He's an a list talented director that consistently makes B-list level films. Without the CGI(which he can't take credit for) these films would suck HARD. The CGI is basically what makes them.

 

Right now the only thing we know for sure is that Hasbro and Paramount would really like a fourth film. Since no one has been hired yet and they haven't started to write a script it's just speculation on the part of fans that Megatron back from the dead yet again would be too bad of an idea for the films to use.

Then again the films have had balls on a robot and sports underwear so they might bring Megatron back from the dead again.

 

To play Devil's Advocate for a second, lack of use doesn't neccessarily translate into lack of marketability. None of these obscure Decepticon leaders have ever gotten any kind of attention outside of the comics. I think the surge of popularity for a character like Iron Man proves this. Prior to his movie, the focus of Mavel's marketing strategy was undoubtedly Spider-Man and Wolverine, and to a lesser-extent the Hulk and Captain America. Iron Man himself received little attention himself aside from two short lived cartoons and the occasional appearance or nod in one of the Big Gun's shows or showing up in some video games. The vast majority of people outside comic book fandom never heard of him, and even among comic book fan the character wasn't rated very highly.

But then Jon Favreau and Robert Downey, Jr. came along and make a kick ass movie and now the character is instantly recognizable and sits along with Spider-Man and Wolverine as Marvel's top three characters.

With the right execution, I don't see why someone like Straxus, Thunderwing, Overlord, etc. couldn't become as popular as the examples you mentioned.

Plus, I don't think the movies have really given the casual movie goer reason to really care about Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave other than the recognizability and nostalgia factor. I think a lot of people would be fine as long as you still have Optimus and Bumblebee. I think Hasbro probably realize this, hence part of the reason why those three haven't gotten that much love in the DOTM line.

Though keep in mind that I'm a traditionalist who thinks that Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave should always be around in some capacity.  

That I agree with it. Especially if there is any truth the TF4/TF5 back-to-back rumors. In which case I'd bet on a Galvatron/Unicron storyline.

Thunderwing and Straxus strike me as the likeliest alternatives if that turns out not to be the case since they've both gotten toys in recent years, showing that they are at least on Hasbro's mind. Plus, with Thunderwing they'd have some material to mine from the comics with the 'Matrix Quest' and 'Stormbringer' storylines.

 

Is all right if Megatron is not being revived,as long as the new Cons leader is able to lead the Evil bots,that will be fabulous

 

I'm going to have to disagree with your Iron Man example. While Iron Man might no have that many solo series under his iron belt he was one of those characters that tended to show up in other series. Not that odd to see Iron Man show up at some point in one of the Spiderman cartoon series.

So it seems like there was a good deal of Tony Stark and Iron Man outside of the comic books.

If you want a comic book example of how obscure some of the comic book Decepticons are it would be more like Hypno-Hustler, Iguana, Miss Arrow, or Screwball from the Spiderman comic books.

Just not sure what kind of execution and development we'd get for any new Decepticons for the movies given how little development and character we've seen out of far too many Decepticons. Just look at Shockwave or Devastator in the movies and they were based on rather popular characters from the past not obscure ones.

 

^ This. I don't think Iron Man is a good comparison, because he still had his OWN comic book. Straxus, Jhiaxus and Overlord are somewhat obscure even in the Decepticon ranks. Maybe that's what's needed tho, to avoid old school fans being disappointed. That's why I wish they had built up to Megatron, Starscream etc. and started out with guys like the ones listed. It would have given the sense that Megatron and co were the real threat.

It's like if they had used the Green Goblin 3 movies a row in Spiderman.

 

Yeah, I'll concede that the character wasn't as obscure as guys like Straxus or Overlord are. Still, Marvel really didn't use Iron Man when it came to advertising themselves. And he pretty much would play second fiddle if he showed up in any of the Spider-Man or X-Men cartoons.

Maybe Blade would be a better example? A character who was in a short lived comic series in the 70's that wasn't used in any kind of non-comics media until the success of his movie which gave him a boost in popularity. Keep in mind that his appearance in the 90's Spider-Man cartoon was around the time of the release of his film.

I'm just saying that lack of use doesn't translate into lack of marketability.

I agree, their record hasn't been good in that area. Though Sentinel Prime was a step in the right direction, despite not being a Decepticon.

 

I think that might be a better example. Blade was pretty obscure until they had a surprise hit with the live action movie. Then it seemed like Blade started showing up all sorts of places like that Spiderman series so Marvel could cash in on the surge of popularity.

For every Blade though you've got dozens and dozens of characters who aren't ever going fight their way out of obscurity because it would be hard to sell Stilt-Man as the main villain in something like a Daredevil movie.

 

the fuck?!
didn't bay said he was done with tf (fanwise/critics/material/etc...)

we need our good tf movie reboot (actual civil war / decepticons destroying the shit outta the puny humans and ineffective weapons / stealing our resources / more than 75% autobot/decepticon screentime / etc).
fuck bay/paramount!!

 

Bay did said he was done with TFs, but due to how much moeny DOTM Got, Hasbro and Paramounts wants a Fourth Movie to be made and they want Bay to make it

 

Yeah, but because he was asked to do a fourth movie the fandom will insist on him doing a fourth one even if the very article that lead to this thread specifically said that he wasn't going to do it...go figure

 

Micheal Bay tends to lie a good bit, just most of the time he calls it misinformation rather than telling a lie. Well and the one time he blamed it on having too much wine at a dinner party.

Paramount, Hasbro, and the production team don't seem all that concerned if we like the films or not so we might as well figure on Bay Transformers films or Bay style Transformers films until the franchise is ran into the ground for every penny they can wring out of it.

 

I don't mind the movie series, besides, there's always transfomers prime.

 

Here's the deal, really simple. If you don't like the movies and don't want another one( at least by Bay) then don't watch it if it gets made. If you do like it then go see it.

Regardless of the movies being good or bad to watch, they have done the franchise a good service. It sparked interest in it alot of transformer fans old and young. Hasbro has made a killing off these films and continues with the toy line moving into the future. However that gets done is a good thing

 

While I'd much rather have someone else, and a preferable reboot there's really nothing we can do. Hasbro probably wants Bay because he's very efficient in his work. He works 12 hour days, stays below budget, and keeps the cast and crew in line. He may have very poor taste, but Hasbro doesn't care because it makes money, and the only people disatsified are the internet fanbase, who get zero priority in any corperations eyes, because not only will most of them never be pleased and whine about anything, but will usually buy the product anyway.

So yeah...short of someone assassinating Bay or something, I don't think anything will stop this. Unless Bay really and truely doesn't want to do it, no matter how much they pay him.

 

Paramount, Hasbro couldn't care less whether we fans like the movie or not because the thing in their mind will be just $$$$

 

I don't think it's true to say they "don't care", it's just that they have to focus on the whole forest, rather than a group of trees. They have to make the movies appealing to everyone, not just hardcore fans.