My recollection of the 2007 movie isn't complete, so I cede Blackout to you. Nevertheless my point about Brawl still stands. Soldiers were firing sabot at him...from 40mm launchers. With small cartridges. With low mass. Low velocity...

I'm not a soldier but I know a thing about physics and tank armor...and an infantry small arms launched 40mm Sabot has NO POWER against Chobam armor that is mounted on the M1A2 Abrams tank. They may as well have been firing BB guns at Brawl as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm not soldier either, and I don't know about physics and tank armor, so you've got me there.   If you say that Brawl should shrug those off, then I'll cede to you. But then throw in fighting four Autobots (granted, not all at once, but...) all of them taking a stab (or a slice) at him.

And "BB guns"? More like... ...Bumblebee guns. YEEAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

 

Ra's men aren't just some random mook from the streets, they are highly trained assassins.

 

Even he got blown off his feet by a hand held rocket launcher

 

Yeah, after he was swiftly moving to fight three Autobots at once, after having knocked Optimus around.

If you watch the shot, Sentinel's basically distracted by the Autobots and then gets *THUMPED!* in the chest with rocket. Sure, it knocked him to his feet, but did that stop him? No. It was probably more the kinetic energy than anything else.

 

But Brawl doesn't have Chobham armor, he has a layer of heat-sensitive nanomachines.

 

I think people are wanting it to be something extraordinary instead of something fairly ordinary because there are a lot of humans and a lot of guns on Earth so it should be something not just anyone could do.

If it was in the DC universe for example I don't think people would be all that upset if Batman stopped a Transformer, might not even get all that upset if Green Arrow stopped a Transformer, but Jimmy Olson using an ordinary gun to kill Transformers would just make the Transformers look weak.

 

That of course all hinges on your definition of "ordinary gun." No human killed a Decepticon with a pistol or assault rifle, and once you count those out, you start going into things that are very much not "ordinary guns".

 

The show may have Humans but if only the storyline can concentrate more on bots,that will be good

 

And that's how it's suppose to be. Otherwise there's no purpose for the Autobots.

What makes things worse with Bayformers is that he makes the human characters so damn stupid and annoying that there's no cause to route for them in the first place.

The OP doesn't do Bay any justice with this thread. In fact it's just another look at how silly characters takes up unnecessary space, and to add insult to injury we have them killing the robots we paid to see kill them. Ergo robbing us of any real payoff.

 

I agree that the definition of ordinary weapon is going to vary from person to person. For me ordinary weapons are weapons that be mass produced and the average person could be trained to use in the setting of the story.

So in the Marvel universe Thor's hammer would not be ordinary because it's magical and only Thor and few others could use it. Iron Man's repulser rays would not be an ordinary weapon because it requires super science Tony Stark doesn't want to share. Or Wolverines claws are not ordinary because it's a rare metal and requires a mutant healing factor. An M16 would be ordinary though in the Marvel Universe because it could be mass produced and most people could be trained to be fairly proficient with it.

 

Not, it´s not. It makes the story pretty boring if the humans can´t do jack and shit.

Then again, in this forum is a sin to have humans be effective. For a bunch of humans people here sure do hate themselves.

 

Isn't there some ground in the middle though between the humans being totally 100% defenseless unable to even scratch the paint on a Transformer and the humans being so powerful that take down any Transformer?

There are some fans who want the humans to be able to do nothing and some fans who want humans to be able to just slaughter any of the Cons, but I think there is a good chunk of fans who aren't so much worried about the humans being able to take on Transformers as long as it doesn't seem too easy.

 

This. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's all about BALANCE.

Brawl and Shockwave's durability was the best of both worlds, in my opinion.

And I think there's a few characters that a lot of people forget when it comes to "durability against humans": Reedman and Ravage. Those two managed to infiltrate a secret military base. A half-dozen soldiers could barely land a bullet on Reedman due to his agility and razor-thin-ness. And Ravage just blitzed the area from afar. He even got hit (with a rocket/missile-thing?) and just kept going.

For smaller characters like them, Frenzy, Laserbeak and such, those are characters that I can expect to be bested by a group of human soldiers. But even then they should put up a fight. Which they did, in my opinion.

 

I think in terms of concept the Bay films managed to find the balance, especially in the first film, but due to the plot structure and the pacing of things, as well as the focus on the human military in terms of screen time, it seemed like the humans had a lot easier time of things than they actually did.

 

Also I´d like to point out that the concept of "invincible transformers" came in the 80s, and now we have 20 years of modern military tech around.

 

They weren't even invincible back then, see numerous examples mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

The previously mentioned examples weren't exactly a dime a dozen.

 

I´m bored, so I´m gonna leave this here:

AGM-114 Hellfire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

9M133 Kornet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

9M123 Khrizantema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MILAN - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RPG-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

It's boring having them present at all. Even back in the G1 days they were annoying little idiots who always needed saving which quite frankly gets old real fast. Having humans killing Autobots is even worse G.I. Joe has it's own time slot. So if I want to see some kickass human characters I'll tune in there.

And F.Y.I. speak for yourself when you compare real life humans to ******ed human characters who stay in harms way every week.

We are talking fiction mind you and in regard to this fiction I route for the bad guys for obvious reason.