I don't know if any of you consciously realize this, but I have a feeling a lot of what we express and voice out, especially when pertaining to matters of personal taste such as, well, Transformers movies, is shaped a lot by your preconceived notions of what it is going to be like, as well as what your first impressions are. Let me illustrate with an example. Back in 2009, I was completely unaware of the hype going on about the michael bay movies. I was a fan of the old TV series as a kid, had watched the original '86 movie, and I had a few figures (namely Soundwave and a few others, that's beside the point), but I sort of wasn't interested in watching the first Bay movie that came out. Somewhere in summer 2009, my friends brought me to watch ROTF, and it reignited some of my interest in the new continuity and the old series. I eventually did end up watching the first movie after I was sufficiently interested to buy a Blu Ray disc of it. To drop a bombshell now - I didn't think ROTF was as bad as it is often portrayed to be. True, I think that some of the action sequences were overly long and mind numbing, true, I think that the human characters (or the transformers for that matter) weren't fleshed out enough, but at its face value I think the expansion of the History of the Primes, the addition of a greater power behind the Decepticon throne; these were all fascinating new dimensions added to the TF lore, and gave the storyline a twist of complexity that the first movie often lacked and was more reminiscent of the original series somehow. I also liked the addition of more characters, even if it didn't give some others enough screentime. Personally, I might even prefer watching ROTF to the first movie (don't lambast me). I believe this is partially influenced by my watching of ROTF as the first impression I had of this new continuity; similarly, this might be what compels others to criticize ROTF and DOTM but still tolerate the first film. I'm saying this not to defend ROTF but to make it clear that imo Transformers is a very multifaceted toy series, and different people might seek out different forms of satisfaction via watching the movies (Human connection, reappearance of old characters, fast paced action scenes, Megan Fox etc). I'm saying that these varied tastes can be shaped by our first impressions or preconceived ideas. Thoughts?
I have alot to say about this, and I mostly agree, Ive learned to appreciate these films more and more as time goes on.
I don't think it's a crime to want something to be good, no. In fact I think the 'it's your fault for going in with high expectations' argument is such a cop out. It doesn't really engage in any genuine critical perspective. I mean, anyone who is a fan of this franchise has expectations. Anyone who likes films in general has expectations, else they wouldn't have paid to see it! If the film isn't very good it's the fault of the filmmakers. /argument. And if you liked the film then fair enough, 'tis all subjective etc.
DOTM was everything I wanted in a transformers film, obvious I would have changed a few things but you cannot win them all
This is what disappoints me the most about this fandom. You should be allowed to enjoy ROTF as much as you want, without fear of being lambasted. I enjoy it the most of all the films, and it actually gets better with repeat viewings. It's the only one of the trilogy that my wife begged me to see again at the cinema. We both didn't like DOTM-I'm a long term geewunner, she has less than a passing interest in TFs that aren't Bumblebee and Grimlock. It's very fashionable to be scathing of ROTF, whilst worshipping DOTM. One person gets on a bandwagon, and they're all on it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't see how anyone in their right mind could enjoy ROTF more than DOTM. I mean, consider some of ROTF's problems: The sign on the Twins in their Ice-cream truck mode that says "Suck my pop-sickle" The profane dialogue of Mudflap and Skidz ("Why don't you get a haircut with ya' bitch ass?", "Get all up in dat ass!") Mojo humping Frankie The shot of Seymour Simmon's buttocks Leo walking around in the museum with his pants down and then tasering himjself Wheelie humping Mikaela's leg and calling her "Warrior Goddess" Jetfire farting Devastator's testicles
For me, I think it goes TF2007 > ROTF > DOTM. I just hit my limit with Sam by the time DOTM rolled around. I can excuse all the bad stuff in ROTF for some reason. It's probably because my favorite scene in the series, the Forest Battle, is in ROTF. Also, I think that ROTF flows better on multiple viewings.
Grimlock should have been in the movieverse. Now, bear in mind I'm what you would call a 'casual fan', I really enjoyed all three of the bay movies. Ok so you didn't get a deep mentally stimulating plot, you got something that tried (and kinda failed) to appeal to casual fans and well... everyone else BUT the hardcore fans. Back in '06 I heard from a friend "Hey, you liked Transformers right? They're making a live action one" Well, when I finally saw Blackout wipe out that military base... my love for TFs was rekindled. Movieverse pulled me back in and I even have an (intentionally) small collection of my own. Hell, both my wife and I really love a few things that most fans HATE. Anthony Anderson, every scene of his has us in stitches. Bumblebee NOT talking is cute. Skids and Mudflap, not racist, just a pair of 16yr olds TRYIN to be gangsta. Simmons is my wife's favourite character, and we both laugh our arses off whenever Sam screams like a bitch. I could go on about all the things I love in these movies, but I wouldn't shut up. All in all, I just don't take them too seriously, I mean if things got anymore Michael Bay, Soundwave would have partnered up with Snoop Dogg and picked out a blue H2 rollin on "Twenny Fo's". There's plenty of series out there that give each fan what he or she wants (and that I know very little about). Yes it sucks they have (a lot) of flaws, but what they did get right, was enough for me to love.
I totally understand all the criticism towards the Bay movies, in fact I agree with almost all the main problems, but I can still 'enjoy' the parts that worked in those films (except DOTM, that just irks me for some reason). What bugs me is how almost no one in the fandom can recognise what is wrong with these films and just sees the criticisms made as an attack on the franchise when its not. Transformers could work out as wonderful science fiction film and yet we just take what Micheal Bay made and think its a great film when there are so many better films that could be made with the franchise. Sure the trilogy are acceptable, but they could have been so much more. Just think of what could have been done with a franchise about intergalactic mechanical beings who can mass shift into anything they desire, fighting against their own brothers to protect the universe from total enslavement; rather than 3 films consisting of Shia Laboeuf attempting to be funny, hot women attempting to act, sidekicks having sidekicks also attempting to be funny for 2/3 of around 9 hours and then finally having the afforementioned robots do stuff that will look cool in the trailers for 1/3 of around 9 hours. Or maybe I'm just a miserable person who can't be happy with the fact that at least I got three films about my favourite franchise that made a boat load of money.
If it wasn't for these movies, I probably never would have looked at Transformers again. It was something I liked at the same time as G.I.Joe from about the age of 8 to 11. Sitting in the theatre watching the first movie at age 31 made me feel like I was 8 years old again. Pretty cool if you ask me.
Yes...and no. I do think that it works both ways...being a Transformers fan for many people makes these films better than they are, as well as the other way around. This is why I love critics...people just outright misunderstand that critic mentality. Sure there's shitty critics, but there are those who make great points. A little knowledge and understanding on how to be critical and analytical goes a long way. That said I'm a childhood lover of Transformers and GI Joe...and I felt both franchises so far have been terrible as a whole. Transformers is an action movie with more of a focus on humans than the robots, and GI Joe Rise of Cobra is GI Joe in name only. Transformers is definitely better, but even then it's something I don't really want to go watch a second time if I have to pay for it. I cannot agree more with this statement. A ton of fans seem to never be able to remove the Fanboy/girl glasses and look at it with a critical and analytical view. Instead of seeing the problems and seeing how the movie stacks up with them, they instead just see the good and magnify the good parts while glossing over the bad. That's not how you do reviews or analyze ANYTHING. But you know...it's understandable. I was like that awhile back when I was in the anime fandom, but as I started thinking critically I went back and evaluated the anime I loved to see whether or not they were actually good. More often than not...they were pretty terrible! I'd like to see more fan glasses come off and people seeing the trilogy from a purely analytical standpoint when discussing whether a movie is good or bad, but that's rarely going to happen.
If you enjoyed the films, including ROTF, more power to you. Though I would like to point out that the history of the Primes and the "true" leaders of the Decepticons are concepts that had been established long before ROTF, especially in the comics. While heavily reimagined, the Fallen himself comes from a previous incarnation in the Dreamwave comics, and even the original G1 series carried with it numerous allusions to Optimus' predescessors. While I think yes, many of us could have gone into the Bay films with a picture of what we wanted in a TF movie, and then found ourselves disappointed by the product, I don't think that dismisses the legitimate criticisms, some of which have been laid out in this thread, of the films. I was actually pleasantly surprised by the first Transformers film in 2007, for example.
Everyone has an opinion, and not everyone is gonna agree. Thay should be peace enough. It sux when one person's opinion isn't good enough for the other man.
Problems? I found them fun. DOTM had miles more, such as INCREDIBLY feeble Decepticons, Optimus being a merciless killer, unexplained driller thing,far too many robot deaths,etcetera. I left DOTM feeling empty and depressed,in comparison to the elation of the other 2. Must mean my wife and I aren't in our'right minds' because we disagree with your opinion.
The Movies aren't that good at all. Enjiyable yeah but certainly not good. The writing, the charecters, the story are pretty weak or bad. Cool you enjoy them. I want a reboot that has the things this series lacked.
These aren't problems, they're jokes you don't care for. That's fine. The problems for rotf are bad pacing, convoluted plot, run time and bad scripting. As an avid movie goer I absolutely hate this movie in every sense. As a tf fan I enjoy the fanwank but still don't care for it... I can't even force myself to watch it. The first movie is fairly good in it's own right. It's fun and the pacing is good. It's definately not my favorite movie. Far from it, but it is enjoyable. Haven't seen dotm yet.
The way I see it is like this: None of the three films are unholy abominations raised from the depths of hell. They are fun extremely and utterly dumb films. You can almost go as far to compare it to Star Wars Episode 1-3. Super dumb VFX spectacles. (dont hurt me) Yes the films have a big issue with giving sam a long boring plot that overshadows the transformers storyline. I always found it kind of sad that they would go from a really great serious scene and then cut to a stupid scene of sam...doing something stupid. (Moon scene/decepticon base camp cut to Deep wang). And then when it gets serious you can take it seriously anymore. (Sam dying in rotf a couple minutes after we see devy's balls). It worked for the first film because they were trying to sell the franchise to the audience but after three movies I think its time to be more serious with narrative. But then again I love the movies for their ultra detail Cgi effects and action sequences. And I still believe that dotm has some of the neatest and well thought out action scenes since I saw avatar.
