Unfair pricing on TFers toys

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Alucard77, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. Nijukyu

    Nijukyu Flameblast Fanboy

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    Well at least on the causality line it's only a $5 raise and not like the Crossfire-2 series where tfsource and toy arena (among others) who currently have restocked prices at about $200 before shipping, when they were originally 60-80 bucks each or 120-160 (depending on who you got them from.)
    But the problem is that if people are willing to pay it, they never feel the need to lower their prices only raise to see how much they can hook you for.

    On a side note: Bruticus Maximus complete sets are hard to find under $150 and I've seen heavily used and incomplete sets go on EvilBay for over $50.
     
  2. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    The thing that is funny is that the companies have gotten smarter but the consumer has not.

    At the end of the day, the consumer is effected even more then the company. We make less money and are expected to pay more on everything. We just shrug our shoulders and hope for a better tomorrow. We need to be willing participants in a better tomorrow.
     
  3. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    You know, this is such a good damn point.

    I would love to know what Fans Project charged BBTS/TFSource when they restocked both companies with the overstock they found of City Commander.

    I mean we were all here like, wholely shit, City Commander at $130. GO GO GO. But I wonder where that money went to. Did it go to FP or did it go straight to the pockets of TFSource/BBTS?

    I mean it is an overstock, so nothing really changed in production cost. If anything maybe the shipping was more then when it was first made. But when it came out it was $70 if I am not mistaken.

    Here it was at $130, an 85% markup. To me I rather FP get that money then TFSource / BBTS.

    That is the other thing that bothers me. These price increases do effect these third party companies that we want to support. If FP did get the profit, then good. If BBTS/TFS did, then f them. If you think about it, if we don't buy at these jacked prices, then these third party companies think their product is not selling. Well it is not selling cause of them, it is not selling cause of their vendors pricing of their goods.
     
  4. videriant

    videriant Well-Known Member

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    1) Dark of the Moon's production cost was $200m. The movie has made over $1,200m. Should Paramount be handing out free DVD's on the street?

    2) BBTS operates in a niche market. Comparing BBTS to Walmart is like saying a Ferrari should be priced the same as Hondas or that United/Henkei should be priced the same as Generation/Classic.
     
  5. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    FP first release CC was 70 bucks? I thought last time we discussed this it was 79.99? I could be mistaken.
     
  6. videriant

    videriant Well-Known Member

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    According to my BBTS history I paid $76.99 but I can't remember if I pre-ordered or not.

    EDIT: Checked my email and it was a pre-order.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  7. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    1- OK, this statement is really ridiculous for so many reason. Not even sure where to start from. If the movie theater that you go to charges $25 a seat because it knows it is only theater in a 100 mile radius, then it is a problem when all other theaters charge 1/2 that. The theater is using its distance from competition as its main pricing point. Same as BBTS.

    Your example is like saying FP made a shit load of money off of their stuff. YES, they created it. They are not a reseller. Creativeness pays in all fields of life. Reselling does not. That's why this is so off base.

    2- You missed my point. Because they work in a niche market, it is much easier for them to price fix. There is 3 stores. They all want to make money. It's Easy to just agree on one price.

    Even if it was $80.00. Shouldn't the restock be $80 as well. So if FP provided these to TFS and BBTS at original cost, then anything above that 80 that it original sold for is pure profit.
     
  8. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    Thanks. Also, Alucard, mind you:

    1. its not a 85% increase.
    2. I stated this LAST time we had this discussion (maybe it was with transbot and not you): the first release CC didn't come with the add-on pack. The add-on pack was I believe, around 20 bucks.

    ---> So its more like 77 + 20 = 97 vs. 130.

    It's still a big increase, but please, at least be more accurate. You give me the impression like a sly statistician using numbers to prove his point by fudging it.

    35% is vastly different from 85% increase.
     
  9. Nijukyu

    Nijukyu Flameblast Fanboy

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    Crossfire 02--XF-02A Explorer + Combat Unit Appendage Add-on Kit Set A this is tf's restock prices

    this was bbts' original price
    Crossfire XF-02A Explorer with Combat Unit Appendage Add-On Kit Set A - FansProject Crossfire

    If on that huge price jump it was not a result of Fansproject auctioning off the overstock to highest bidder, than I feel like it is tfsource<<insert other online retailer here>> seeing what people will pay for it on ebay and then offering it at most buy it now shop prices on there.
     
  10. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    btw, are we heading in the direction of arguing the negative portion of what Capitalism offers ?
     
  11. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    I addressed the point, but I believe you were typing this post as mine got posted. Also, after the 97 vs. 130$, you still have to factor in other misc cost. Are they making a profit? Yeah. But it is not as much as you make it seem like.


    I am all for actual numbers, instead of making retailers sounds WORSE OR BETTER than they really are.
     
  12. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    In regards to restocks. I recognize and accept that stores like BBTS and TFSource also have a "scalper" side to them. It takes a while for items to sell out and once they are done these same items skyrocket in the aftermarket. These companies are doing what is expected. You will never find an item selling for $100+ on Ebay or wherever going for the original $50 on a restock. Even I wouldn't expect that.


    The issue is that this cash grab is starting (and I emphasize STARTING) to spill over onto products that haven't even seen a release yet. $20 mark up on Herc figures, the new $5 on Kickback, the $10 jack up on Encore Devastator. I fear to see how this ends because, judging by this thread, most fans are fine with the cash grab and will dish out their money to these companies.
     
  13. Red leader

    Red leader Well-Known Member

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    the average profit margin on a retail figure is between 15% - 25% if you get the full market rate for it, imagine then if half a case of Star Wars figures or Generations sells like crap and the company has to make a loss ???

    Its not all wine and roses with shops screwing customers over, its the world at the moment, no one likes it but food, fuel, amenities cant go up and toys stay the same, just doesnt work that way.
     
  14. videriant

    videriant Well-Known Member

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    1) Your original statement was that anything over 50% profit was greed. Is your statement now:

    If they are not the manufacturer and if they make 50% gross margin (revenue/product cost) on any single individual item then they are greedy?

    2) You also missed my point. It's a niche market. Niche markets by definition attract few retailers and borderline price fixing / colluding is a natural result of the market, not the retailers.

    3) Why should an item be restocked at the original price? On rare, weird occurences where Walmarts get restocks of old items they will stock it at the higher prices.
     
  15. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    Wow, its been a while since I agree on your first point with restocks. =)


    On your second paragraph, at least for me personally, I don't like the 98 bucks price point for Hercules. But then again, I rarely order TFC products from BBTS because I got better source. I thought that's part of free market? You think they charge too much, buy somewhere else, and if BBTS deem they are losing much, then they will lower price.


    As for kickback, preorder price hike does happen, and honestly it never bothered me, because I always preorder as things get posted without ANY delay (literally, the moment it goes onto news/rumor, my preorders are always placed.) Its just my own principle that I don't really wait for reviews, comments, or anything. That means that price hikes for preorder items never personally affected me. I can see a reason for it, though.


    edit:: curious... did anyone consider if Retailers have to pay taxes for the items they import or buy in bulk? j/w since I honestly don't know.
     
  16. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    I am going to bold this so everyone can see a good starting point, because we all speak in speculation and there is an easy way to back into profit by comparing prices.

    Here is a quick formula to identify profit margins:
    This is flawed as we don't have the retail cost. But it is based off of data we do have.

    1- Get the price for said item from Robot Kingdom
    2- If you look at said item + shipping cost + 10% that is usually what BBTS/TF Source price is.

    The unknown factor is
    1- The shipping in huge quantities (1000's of items at one time), even though I can go off of personal experience.
    2- What the wholesale price was for the consumer.

    So let's see this little experiment here:
    Robot Kingdom sell price of Heavy Labor: $77.90.
    Shipping cost of Heavy Labor: $15.87 (slowest shipping)
    Total cost: $93.77

    Increase of BBTS price on top of this is $4. So rougly 5% increase.

    So lets rewind a bit here.

    The figure is costing BBTS no less then $77.90 as they are buying directly from FP.

    Now let's make some realistic assumptions, this is based off of personal experience in logistics. Let's say they order 1000 items. The shipping would roughly be $3000-$4000. Let's go with $4k.

    So now its $77.90 + $4= 81.90. Then lets add $5 for storage fees and employee costs. That is being extremely generous here. EXTREMELY GENEROUS. That makes it $86.90.

    That would be a $11 profit per figure. That to me would be fair. It is a profit margin of 13%. That is a good operating profit.

    The only thing I gotta say though, is that there is no way on gods green earth that they bought that figure at $77.90 per figure. When you are buying in mass quantities in the thousands. I assure that there are some DEEP discounts there.

    While Mac & Cheese upsets me, it would be great to see what type of deep cuts he got on his orders.

    I am thinking that minimum profits seen on this stuff is close to 30%. Realistically.

    So there is no magic to these companies pricing:
    It is overseas competitor price + Shipping + 5%-10% = BBTS/TFSource price.
     
  17. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    Thats just it. It is a free market and unfortunately BBTS is the most hassel free store for Americans and they are taking advantage of that fact. Do I blame BBTS? Hell no but I also don't respect them for doing it.

    It is the consumers fault for aiding in these practices via purchasing from said company. There are just too many fans buying from BBTS for them to ever feel a pinch. We are part of a community that is all about getting it first and not about paying the least. That is a very bad combination when trying to correct this new cash grab going on.
     
  18. G.I.EDDIE

    G.I.EDDIE Purple treads suck!

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    IMO, defending a vender who is taking advantage of you (you being used generally here) is like the girl who defends her rapist...
     
  19. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    You did nothing to address Videriant's question.

    And your example is a bit going overboard, but if you want to play,

    IMO accusing a vender whom you have no solid evidence of taking advantage of you is like a girl who randomly accuses someone for raping her, and swears that by her words that's the only you need to believe that he/she did do so.
     
  20. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    @Alucard. I was going to mention that there is no way BBTS is paying per figure what RK is selling for. I will bet my Hercules that the only difference in piece price is shipping.

    I would assume piece counts are between $40 and $60 to get your 15%-25% mark up. There is no way these are bought at $70 even with any shipping prices you want to make up. No store will pay $70 to make $7 and I will call it a safe bet to say BBTS is making more than $10 a figure. You do not invest 70 for 10 you will be out of business in no time.

    @ EXO, what is this solid evidence you need so bad? Its just logic. RK sells for $80ish and BBTS for $100...shipping and exchange rates and duty costs and this and that and whatever else do not equal $20 PER UNIT.

    Second these companies are not investing $80 bucks on a single unit for $20 profit. I don;t think a store, even as big as BBTS, can afford to do that. The flip isn;t quick enough and the sales are nto garunteed.