Very well said Timelord Megs  

 

Methinks you're taking this too seriously.

 

He's being a little abrasive, but at the same time the major Erector supporters are more than a little sensitive.

I'm going to speak in broad generalities here, so forgive me for that. I'm also going to use a word with a definition in a non-pejorative way, so please make a note that despite the fact that it is often used as a generic Internet insult, I do not intend it in an insulting manner. So here goes:

The Erector movement is basically trolling the Hall of Fame.

Note: this isn't necessarily a bad thing to do. In fact, whether or not you approve of such an action is probably one of the best predictors of your support for Erector. "Trolling" refers to a statement that is designed to get a specific reaction from a specific individual or group, over and above being accurate or genuinely reflective. The evidence is in the lack of Erector discussion prior to the HoF announcement; it is in most pro-Erector posts, including the recent and notable one by Kickback. The professed point of voting for Erector is to get someone who isn't famous in the Hall of Fame.

So you can think of it as a joke, and a fairly funny one at that. You can think of it as a crusade on behalf of the underdogs, an interpretation that Hasbro has clearly picked up and applied to Erector's brilliant new bio. You can think of it as a bold statement to Hasbro that you don't agree with recognizing some Transformers as more important than others. You can think of it as recognizing the line of Micromasters in general as worthy of recognition, so sort of a line- or year-based measure of fame than a character-based one. I don't agree with all of those reasons but I understand them and support some.

But Aernaroth happened to re-state succintly something that I have a REAL problem with. This is a feature of the pro-Erector movement that is a significant pet peeve of mine and that I feel attacks specific characters--which in turn implicitly attacks certain fans and certain official fiction writers. If you guys could understand that you are doing this, you will understand why you have determined opposition as well as constant flaming from riled-up hatemongers. (Hopefully you will fit me in the former category rather than the latter.)

The statement of Aernaroth's that makes me see red is "Do you honestly think that last year's induction of Dinobot should be a case of "Well, we showed we can get a less iconic character into the hof, back to the same stable of 12 characters we see every year", rather than the start of a better trend of the fans pushing for some real gems from the less-recognized parts of the franchise getting their due?"

Do you know why we see Shockwave, Jazz, and Grimlock again on the ballot? Because we put them there. "Fan power" elected them. "Fan power" electing popular characters is just as valid, commendable, and indicative of genuine feeling as when it elects characters that you judge to be sufficiently obscure.

Why are these characters "iconic?" Because Hasbro asked us what characters we consider to be iconic. Essentially, you are treating fans of popular Transformers in the same way that hipsters treat non-hipsters.

When you attack other Transformers for being more "iconic" than Erector (and their fans, usually implicitly, but I believe that the term "sheep" has been used to explicitly attack others), you transform the positive argument of the Erector movement into a negative one. "Vote Erector because all the others are too trendy." That rubs people the wrong way.

[This is a side point, but your statement is actually absurd on its face because the Hall of Fame was created in 2010. "Every year" = "one of two years."]

Aernaroth also illuminates another point I wish to make. There are two major viewpoints on Dinobot espoused in the Erector movement. One is the one he espouses here, which I will phrase as "Dinobot is like Erector because he was an underdog." The other is something like "Dinobot is just as boring and trendy as the rest of the candidates."

Both of these viewpoints are spectacularly flawed.

First of all, Dinobot was something of an underdog mostly because he didn't appear in G1. (People are crazy about G1 characters, that's not in dispute. Even Erector has that edge, as no one is going to seriously get a movement behind a non-toy character in any other franchise.) In the pool of characters that do not appear in G1, he is an immediately obvious choice. Breakout character in a major television series. The analogy between him and Erector is totally false. There was a "Dinobot movement" but it was to get out the vote among people who had actually heard of him. The goal wasn't to get Hasbro to write a bio that contains ten times as much information as the only fictional appearance of the character.

Second of all, Dinobot was NEVER a shoo-in. It seems clear that his continued popularity was a minor surprise to Hasbro (not that he was popular--he got a Universe figure--but that he was more popular than Jazz, let alone Soundwave). This is somewhat related to the bizarre idea that fans have to nominate characters that would never occur to Hasbro because Hasbro is going to induct three or four characters every year that they think are cool. Let's just wait and see on that, considering that we have two data points (2010 and 2011), and the second data point (the auto-inductees of 2011) was accurately predicted by absolutely no one on the basis of the first data point (the auto-inductees and nominees of 2010).

To sum up: Dinobot isn't a "boring" choice (as if that was a reason not to vote for someone), but neither is he, who was voted in on the basis of his character, in any way comparable to a Transformer who had no character except that which imagination could extract from his toy.

So thanks for reading that long-ass post, if you bothered. The take home message is this: Erector fans, you undermine your (largely legitimate) position that you are the voice of positivity and fun when you start negatively arguing on the basis of other characters' popularity. You need to be posting about something other than other characters being too popular and other fans being too "conventional." Moreover, you should accept the fact that not everybody agrees with taking the Fame out of the Hall of Fame, and simply declaring that that is what you are doing does not de-legitimize those other fans. That's not an argument, it's simply a goal, that one is free to accept or reject.

Disclaimer: Nothing in this post should be construed to support mindless and hateful Erector-bashing and Erector fan-bashing. And it's a shame I have to write that.

 

Whatever else is to be said, I do appreciate your honesty on this. As I said a few pages back, I'm of the impression that this is majority right now. Not people who are voting for him because of the phallic humor. Not people who actually do have nostalgic connections to him. Those people are out there, sure. But I'm convinced that the reason this campaign has generated this momentum is because of the response against those of us (including me, I admit) that pushed back on the humor (not that it was humor, but specifically that type of humor).

 

I did bother, and it's a good one!   It's definitely from a very different angle than mine, but a very good read and it explains why you see it the way you do!

I do have to disagree with one thing, though: all the talk by people that everybody that's not Erector is the 'lame/lesser' vote...the way I see it it's all very tongue-in-cheek..but I can see why that would rub people the wrong way.  

 

I wonder if the voice actors of these characters are also joining in on the fun. I know Greg Berger is. But what about the other voice actors?

 

Another day another vote from me.

Oh yeah...

 

Is the purpose of this thread to put down other candidates? Or is it to promote the one we have a passion for? Or is it just a discussion centered on the HoF? I am a bit confused about what exactly is the topic, after 63 pages. Its been very amusing, and a lot of very nice posts (along with some trolls and insulting ones). But, what exactly is the purpose of this thread?

 

I've bolded the two purposes I feel this thread should have. Putting down others really shouldn't have a place here.  

 

To some people, they take campaigning/promoting as trolling as long if it's the nominee they don't like.

 

+3 for Erector today.

 

Maybe now it is, sure. But all of this back and forth definitely started because of "baaaaaw no erector in fictional space robot hall of fame baaaaaw".

IIRC, nobody from the pro-Erector camp is sending or has sent angry PMs. People from the anti-Erector camp have.

 

Okay, but it hasn't allowed me to vote again since the 13th...more than 48 hours ago. That's screwy.

 

Try a different computer?

 

I might go buy some laptops, vote, then return them.

 

Bravo for putting this into words. One thing I'd like to add is that some of the Erector camp (I refuse to name names due to not wanting to start even more wank and flaming) seem to make it their job to get incensed by the anti-Erector camp, be it their 'loldickjoke' mentality, or their insistence on mocking those who are voting for him for more personal reasons. These individuals take the bait too readily, as though if they don't get upset about their choice, they won't be taken seriously.

The opposite is true, actually. The more vehemently you defend your choice against every person who mocks it, the more it looks like a playground argument. "He's dumb!" "No he's not, you're dumb!" "Nuh-uh, he's dumb and stupid!" "Nuh-uh, shut up!" It makes these individuals come off as being just as petty as their opponents, regardless of their status in the fan community/TFW2005 community. Pettiness is par for the course with any fandom, especially Transformers, but at this level it's off-putting. A lot of the Erector camp has me nodding in agreement to some degree, but then there's the fervent supporters who just make me...

Look, I get that there's a lot of love for the little guy, and I support the movement, in that they amassed enough momentum to take it that one extra step to get Erector into the official running. I applaud them. That doesn't mean I approve of some of the more vocal members getting their knickers in a twist every time someone disapproves, even if they're disapproving in an immature manner. Good on you guys for getting him this far. I'm sorry your campaign has so much wank attached to it. Many of you are incredibly graceful about your position, more than the TF fandom has a rep for. There's just a few of you that could learn to dial it back a bit and rise up above the mockery.

Like your candidate. Be the big man among the little ones.  

 

Very, very well written.

Both sides had their part IMO (The pm bashing was uncalled for), but with that being said I have to say that both sides have become a lot more friendly to each other and I think it's become more enjoyable for all.

Another vote for Waspinator today  

 

And Erector is most certainly the biggest of them all.

(look at that, I went nearly the whole voting process without making a dick joke)

 

Wow. The parade is getting pretty saturated.
While there are some well thought out and articulated posts popping up in this thread, I'm pretty saddened by the motivations behind some of them.

'Power issues' isn't a term I like to throw around, but if any individual in this thread feels strongly about how others choose to vote, it's probably appropriate.

Be it a donkey vote, protest, joke, or general appreciation, it makes no difference to the validity of the choice. I guess screaming at the sky that the majority of fellow voters are idiots is the right of every member of a democracy!

The Erector campaign seems to be fun for all who involve themselves in it, so why not let a frivolous poll be fun?

I'm off to go vote Jazz, and melt vintage (BW) Dinobots...  

 

Very well said. I applaud your rationale.