I finally got this issue today and really enjoyed it. The artwork was great and I found the story, itself, to be well written. I know that some don't like the change in direction for Prowl's character here, but I felt that it was a natural progression for him to take once the war had ended and there was no enemy left to fight. What will really be interesting is when Megatron eventually returns (we all know it will happen) and the war with the Decepticons starts up again. Will Prowl maintain this new outlook or revert back to being cold and logical like he was in AHM #15? Should be interesting to see what happens.

 

I think he holds Cybertronian life above human life (the whole 5 billion of them, 10 thousand of us). He, like Hot Rod, saw the war as over and therefore to save Cybertronian butt it'd be prudent to leave. That said, he doesn't want innocent human life to be hurt either. Hence, his actions to interfere and save the girl.

 

I quite liked this. Sure, it's not very traditional Prowl the prick, but it felt like what might happen to Prowl if his ordered world was turned upside down. Of course, I still don't know why he would risk his life to try and save Breakdown. To Autobots, humans are worth saving, but Decepticons? Nah. I feel as though this issue being used as justification for that scene was a bad idea. It stands well enough on its own.

I wouldn't go so far as to compare Prime here to Primal in BM. BM Primal, for a lack of a better term, was a religious fanatic. All Prime is trying to impart on Prowl here, and to demonstrate in the ongoing, is his faith in humanity. Prime's faith in humanity is kinda of central to his character, I think.

 

This is partway explained one of the AHM Coda issues (it's 15 I'm pretty sure) - the one where Kup comes back. Prowl was having a whinge about how Prime lets various different Autobots almost goad him into rash action, and suggests that the heavy losses incurred by the Autobots are partly because of this

 

I just read this, and I think I echo a lot of other readers' sentiments.

It's not as bad as I feared. In fact it's quite good. This is the first TF story written by Costa that I've liked. I even have to grudgingly admit that even the ongoing is getting better.

I'm totally divided on the ART. If it was ANYBODY ELSE... I'd be thrilled. I loved it.... but knowing that it's EJ Su, I'm really torn. Up till now, I've been really excited about his work, and the way that he's brought some authentic manga stylings to the US TF comics, in terms of the panel compositions and the mechanical detail. I really enjoyed the work on this issue, but it makes me sad if EJ Su is going to forsake the style that made him such a standout.

Here's hoping that he will continue to evolve towards a synthesis of his two styles. If nothing else, I'm sure working this way allows him to work much more quickly.  

REGARDING THE WRITING... I found the wrap-up of this story a bit trite, sentimental and cliched... but I think it still works to a degree. Costa gets Prowl mostly right in this issue... he's a quiet listener who sits back and observes. He's intensely logical, rational, a calculator. He speaks in simple, matter-of-fact terms. However, he's not a being of COLD logic. He's still, like the best of the Autobots, fundamentally humane, benevolent and sympathetic. He's still a good guy.

I think Nick Roche's short Prowl piece skirted the edges of this perfectly, because Prowl's instinct to serve the greatest good was merged with his rational, strategic mind to walk a razor's edge of morality, without actually tumbling over.

On its own, this story works very well. HOWEVER... it does not work as an excuse, explanation or apology for Prowl's behaviour earlier in the ongoing. I refuse to believe that after millennia at war with the Decepticons, Prowl would so completely forget that war has casualties. I cannot imagine how spending a year undercover, with a front row seat of human behaviour at its worst would remove his cynicism and convince him that every human and Cybertronian life is worth saving.

At best, his attitude earlier in the Spotlight, that one of "their" lives (humans) cannot mathematically be the same worth as a Transformer's... an attitude that is essentially robot racism, MIGHT explain his actions in the ongoing... the notion that falling to humans is a fate too low, even for a Decepticon.

However, I cannot be convinced that his impulsive leaping to save a STILL HOSTILE ENEMY COMBATANT, who has been directly responsible for inflicting horrific atrocities on the human race, from the local legal human self-defense authorities, is somehow relevant to his character... even with his "new outlook" from the Spotlight. It still doesn't fly.

Good issue, and I'm glad it managed to be more than just a cheap attempt by IDW to retcon bad character writing... but it doesn't cover their tracks. I'd rather see them forget it and move on, than continue to subtract the qualities that make Prowl who he is, in the interests of maintaining the facade that "this is what we planned all along".

zmog

 

I agree... but another way of looking at it is that EJ Su adapted his style to tell this kind of story. I would actually be happy to see artists develop a bit more versatility, and adapt their style to the type of story being told... and if this is an indicator that EJ Su can do that as needed on Transformers, I'm all for it. I just hope this doesn't signal the "death" of his established style that we love so much.

Well said. This is exactly how I'm feeling on the writing for Prime... it feels extremely weak. Prime is a tricky character to write... if you write him as an icon, then he becomes sort of 2-dimensional. If you write him as flawed and self-doubting, he becomes weak, ineffectual, and very much NOT Optimus Prime. In the past, many TF writers have sought to avoid this difficulty by simply REMOVING him from the scenario, by way of injury (AHM), captivity (Costa), "death" (Marvel), or simply having him 'out of town' for much of the time (Furman's IDW run).

Anybody remember the old western series GUNSMOKE? Considering how often Prime's been compared to a Western Hero, it reminds me of Gunsmoke, where Marshall Matt Dillon got top billing in the opening of the show, and he would easily be able to resolve just about any crisis that came into Dodge City... except for some inexplicable reason, he was almost NEVER AROUND. He always was "out of town" or something, leaving the crisis in the hands of the local deputies and saloon madame.

Again, totally agree. The reason I haven't been pleased with Costa's run so far is that he seems to be dealing almost exclusively in transparent plot devices, but not building credible reasons for anything to be happening. I hope he gets it together soon.

Not me. For some reason it never occurred to me that he might be using his holo-matter dupe. I assumed he was "embedded" as a vehicle, just to observe.

On the other hand, I HATEHATEHATEFU**IN'HATE!!!! those holomatter dummies. Imperfect holographic projection of a driver, just in the car? Okay, I can dig it. Semi-solid magical puppet capable of running around outside the car and interacting with people? NO. THANK. YOU.

Totally agree. Good story, but it doesn't hold up as a justification for earlier problems.

Except that so far in the IDW series, Prime has been given absolutely no reason, in his very limited exposure to Earth, to have any special faith in humanity. He doesn't have a meaningful relationship with Earth or any humans, so why get all emotional and conflicted?

In fact, I feel that this whole "faith in humanity" thing has gotten pretty tired over the years... I mean, I can see how Transformers haven't exactly been a model species over the past million years or so, but I don't really see how an alien race could come to Earth right now and be "impressed at our inherent potential and strong character as a species". That humanistic, sentimental optimism just feels a bit old, and a bit disingenuous. Maybe I'm cynical, but I think you really have to SELL IT... through writing... not just default to that overwrought cliche.

Humans can be great, in spite of ourselves. It takes work. But looking around, we mostly suck.  

zmog

 

I wonder if Prowl's shock and disgust over humans killing a wounded, unarmed combatant was a dig at ROTF.

 

Finally got around to reading this today, and wow, I really enjoyed this issue quite a bit. I think for the most part, I think my expectations were gonna be really low. But I really like how they handled Prowl's character and his changes.

 

It's just a classic device in science fiction. Aliens typically admire or envy humanity for our adaptability, our quick-thinking and our boundless ingenuity. Essentially, we're "better" than the highly-advancedaliens in scifi stories because we are diverse and forward-thinking, we evolve, create new technology and adapt to new situations far more quickly than aliens in science fiction are usually depicted. Aliens usually stay more or less the same for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Essentially, it's a romantic view of America's rapid rise to power over the staid "old world" empires of Europe.

For example:
*Star Trek: The Vulcans took a millennia to recover from a devastating nuclear war and colonise the stars. They are privately awed that humanity has done the same in less than a century, and feared what humanity might achieve in the next.

*Mass Effect: Humanity quickly presented itself as a military power to be reckoned with by defeating the Turians in the First Contact War, despite having no previous contact with aliens and had only recently adapted Prothean technogy.

*Stargate SG1: See above.

 

Oh, it's absolutely an established convention. You also see it in comic books all the time, fantasy settings (Tolkien right on through to D&D), etc... all contributing to this "favoured son" complex for humanity, stroking our ego because we have "great potential". In a way, it's just a "you're special/chosen one" self-serving optimism about our manifest destiny.

And that's exactly why I called it old and tired. It's not a "classic device" anymore, it's a facile cliche, a platitude. It carries no weight when a writer just kind of falls back on it, rather than selling us on the concept in the context of the series (which is what Costa is doing here).

How about "Humanity, you're really not special at all. You're no better than anyone else... in fact you've screwed up pretty bad, and you're going to have to put a lot of work in if you want to last into the next century, instead of just counting on your ideal notion of 'human perserverence'. If it weren't for this nasty war we've got going, we Transformers would probably just take a little 300-year nap, and come back once you're all dust just to avoid dealing with you."?  

zmog

 

Am I the only one who is wondering if his ability to control/influence Kup was ever used? Can it still be used? Is he using it now?

Or are they just going to forget that ever happened, or wrap it up with a quick throw-away comment so they can claim to have addressed it.

The dropping of a cool story line bothers me more than the (rapid) change in personality.

 

I couldn't agree with you fellas more. I had the same sentiment over Avatar once the awe of the graphics faded away. Can't we have pop ficiton that criticizes humanity and some of the negative repurcussions of America's rapid industrial revolution? But then, I guess it wouldn't be pop fiction.

That said, when I put it into context, I'm still largely enjoying Costa's run. And I think Prime does in fact have more of a connection to humans than we give credit for. His emotions come after the events leading up to AHM and the devastation brought on the planet by AHM. Previously, the Transformers conducted their war in hiding. Whatever damage that occurred was comparatively minimal. Then the Autobots deserted Earth to fight in the Dead Space saga. I think Prime is guilty for abandoning the planet, and guilty for the devastation wrought in AHM. He was also impressed with the human movement led by Spike against the 'Cons on Earth, as well as their ability to reverse engineer Shockwave's weapon, and single-handedly take down Megatron (altho it was a sucker punch for sure). They then rebuild, refortify, and (mistakenly) take all Cybertronians as enemies.

While Prime's thoughts/reasoning/emotions haven't been explicit, I don't think it's that hard to connect the dots. I don't think it comes out of nowhere, even if it is a cliched sentiment/device in fiction.

 

Yeah, I've been wondering about that too... I was kind of assuming they were just going to pretend it never happened... or worse, openly discard it/retcon it before actually using it for anything. Personally I feel the "puppet-master" concept for Prowl (both literally and figuratively I guess) is brilliant, and something that really should be developed subtly and gradually over a longer period... not necessarily just something that will fit neatly into a 6-issue story arc for trade paperback purposes.  

Arguably, I think Avatar makes a point of criticizing humanity's rapid industrial development... to an extent, I think the message might even be regressive, suggesting that we should all go back to living in tribal societies in the wilderness, because that would be "most natural"... never mind the fact that this idea romanticizes tribal warrior societies excessively. Tribal society is basically a violent, superstitious conformist hierarchy ruled by jocks. It's like high school, except if you don't fit in, you might get stabbed with spears... just like poor ol' Piggy.  

But I digress... in Avatar, it still took a human (ie: technologically advanced white guy) to lead the "savages" to victory and bed their princess, so I think the message in Avatar is pretty compromised.

I considered this, but I'm not sure if I accept it. IDW has Prime spent very little time on Earth, and humans had almost no relevance to the main plot points during Furman's run. Prime spent almost the entirety of AHM in a coma on Cybertron. His return to Earth was a big fight, followed by Spike telling him "Thanks for the last minute help, but please f*** off now.", and ever since, the Autobots and Decepticons have been hiding out, being hunted to near extinction by overzealous humans, despite there being no good reason even to remain on Earth...

So Prime's pontificating about how his troops "needed to change, and wouldn't be able to do so with me around" rings pretty false.

I'm not sure if Shane's run was an ideal way to pass the torch to another writer, but I'm also not very impressed with the way that Costa has hit the ground running. Although there have been some interesting bits here and there, the underlying premises that he's based his whole story arc on have been less than credible.

Things are getting better, but it was a very weak start.

zmog

 

Oh, poor piggy, we loved you so.

This is what I was going for, the beaten to death cliche, like that of "the majesty of the human spirit" exemplified in Transformers. My comments about humanity and the human ability to rebound and industrialize were intended to reference your earlier comments about Transformers, not Avatar. Quick comments at the office tend to be disorganized and confusing, but thanks for picking up on the right trail  

 

Gotcha!  

zmog

 

Nope. Still don't think this justifies his change of behavior in ongoing 1. In the spotlight, he still insists on treating the Autobots as a military unit, even keeping the chain of command that he's told is no longer necessary. Despite things changing he still follows the rules. The first issue of the ongoing shows him breaking cover, despite being ordered not to. Following orders even if he disagrees with him is INTEGRAL to his character. I can understand a little change in behavior, but this drastic a change is totally not warranted.

 

Nicely done, though I found EJ's new direction in inking somewhat jarring. Story actually made Prowl almost likable. Almost.

 

Furman already did that for his -tion series, though. Humanity was of little import to the Autobots besides being one of the many sentient races they were defending in their secret war.

 

Furman didn't hand humanity a trophy for being awesome, no... the humans were really marginal to the whole storyline. REALLY marginal.

Though considering the dark undertone of the British sci-fi tradition, I'd find a ringing endorsement of the human spirit a bit surprising coming from him.  

zmog

 

This was much better than that Prowl Coda issue. Much better. But I like EJ old style better.