Comparison:

 

I swear Hasbro could stick a Core Class with a couple guns in a Leader packaging and people would still claim it's a Leader.

 

Those would have to be some giant pews pews.

ROTB OP is voyager sized and that's really it. He's the same size as the shorter Voyagers since Siege. That being said, I wouldn't have minded a different class name altogether to better describe the decreased complexity.

I wouldn't call it 'accurate' if a cheap ass looking gray plastic is taking the place of metallic silver. A nicer swirly plastic would have done wonders or more generous use of silver paint.

Edit: Actually, looking at some of the better quality renders, the single gray is quite inaccurate. There should be multiple shades of gray.

 

To wade into the size debate, I weighed a few of the figures I've got on display this morning and so this might help

SS86 Jazz mold with gun - 74g
ROBT Mainline Voyager Optimus Prime with gun - 107g
Legacy Evo Tarn with guns - 124g
Legacy Laser OP core figure only (no sword or axe) - 164g

 

Yeah ima have to go with a voyager on this on Alex! I'm definitely skipping this and hope the SS version is actually leader sized.

 

That’s a Voyager?!?  

 

Holy fuck guys. ITS A VOYAGER. Whether you like it or not, or whether you think it’s worth the price or not is one thing but it’s so stupid to say “it’s not a voyager”. That a fucking price point, and when it rang up at Walmart it sure as shit matched that price point.

 

Yes, it's a voyager, on par size-wise with the likes of Optimus Primal, Tigertron, and 86 Ironhide. Buuuuutttt, wasn't the point of the recent sizing to reflect how these characters were in relation to other characters. Like how WFC Trailbreaker and Hoist were larger than Sideswipe and Wheeljack, despite them all being deluxes? So, if this were, say 07 Movie Ironhide as a 15-16cm tall voyager, then great. But Optimus isn't a 'small big guy' like that, Optimus is usually a solid voyager, a 'big guy but not huge'. And as Scourge is already a leader class toy, and a bit of a large one at that, this isn't Hasbro following the recent, post WFC size scaling, my guess it's Hasbro once again re-setting the size scaling, likely for budget reasons...again.

So yeah, there's precedent for voyagers being this small, but those typically are that small because they're supposed to be that small. This is bucking the pattern for....whatever.

 

He's definitely a result of Hasbro's "offer an excuse, then slowly take that excuse away" tactic.

"It's a small voyager BUT he's complex, has girth, lots of paint, and comes with more accessories!"
"It's a small voyager BUT he's complex, has girth, and comes with more accessories!"
"It's a small voyager BUT he's got girth and he's complex!"
"It's a small voyager BUT he's complex!"
"It's a small voyager BUT don't complain because he's the same size as those previous voyagers!"

 

This isn't studio series, so the attempts at scaling from that line don't apply here. I'm sure the eventual SS release of this design will be more appropriately scaled, especially since we know it's based off BBM Prime, which is bigger than this figure.

 

Siege, Earthrise and Kingdom weren't Studio Series either. This new scale wasn't introduced by Studio Series, it was a mainline thing that carried over into Studio Series.

I never mentioned Studio Series, all examples I used were mainline. Apples to shrinking apples.

Oops, I guess I did mention 86 Ironhide, so one of the examples used was SS, but the vast majority were mainline. Still apples to shrinking apples.

 

I think you're confusing Studio Series with Studio Series 86 here.

Studio Series first released to retail in 2018, introducing scale-accurate (ish) movie-verse figures.

Siege was released to retail at the beginning of 2019, introducing the scale-forward franchise direction to the G1 character base.

SS86 started in 2021, becoming the torchbearer for the Studio Series label after the large majority of movie-verse characters had been exhausted, and with RotB's release being delayed.

 

No. No one's that far gone. C'mon. "Leader" Blitzwing? I'll give you. He's a Voyager with pointless accessories thrown in the box. But a Core Class with a bunch of accessories? No. None of us would go "SEE?! IT'S A LEADER CLASS! HAW HAW!" no.

*sigh* I meant the LACK of paint apps. I didn't talk about the color of the plastic or the render. The barely there apps that it has now are basically CGI model accurate. None of the black and yellow on his pelvis/hips, no blue all over his legs (just the shins). I don't care about various tones of metallic silver. My point was still legit and valid. What you see in the toy is actually rather accurate and doesn't require the paint apps of the SS38 figure to be "better". Should the gray plastic have been painted silver? Sure. But out of the box, if you compare him to the CGI model, you'll see they tried to emulate the look and did a pretty good job because the CGI model isn't winning any awards in the apps department.

Yes, it is. People have done several size comparisons and it absolutely is. I think people seem to forget that the mainline is for kids, it's not for us. If we want "accuracy" that's what SS is for. (And even then, due to the delays, they've dropped the ball on 'em.) People think they're scrawny and small and listen to the Bitchfestomatic that is Chefatron but never think for themselves. These are surprisingly dense figures with nice, smooth transformations and surprising amounts of detail. Articulated remarkably well for what you're getting, and they definitely look the part in robot mode. I've seen "collector" versions be far worse than these.

Right? People just can't get over this for some reason. All they have to do? Not buy it. It's that simple. Just don't buy it, then they can't bitch. They have no right to, then. Can't fully judge these figures until they have 'em in hand. If they still dislike/hate them, then... They can bitch. This looking at pics and a brief glance in the store thing ain't doin' them no favors. You and I seem to not get this following part: Why bitch about something y'all will likely never own? Why? What does it add to your life? Or do you like detracting from the lives of your fellow fans (me and Shmop, us) like a joy-sucking Dracula?

It's mainline...it's for kids. Collector lines have a more unified scale, as well as parts count, paint apps, and accessories. Not to mention, the fancier packaging. These are also cheaper than the collector lines. $22.99 and $33.99. Legacy, et al, $24.99, $34.99 respectively. It's expensive AF, y'all.

And Scourge is not a large Leader Class figure. He's no taller than SS Voyager Megatron (either version). He has a high parts count and amazing paint apps, plus killer details molded in, but he's not a tall Leader by any stretch.

I'll answer this about Voyagers in general, less about him. (I'll circle back to him.)
They're smaller, sure, but they *do* have complexity, girthy plastic that's thick and dense and takes a good amount of abuse, as well as nicer paint apps. The accessories are a legit cost issue, to pretend otherwise is silly.

As for this Prime? He does weigh more than you'd expect (Primal's heavier than him, so wow!) and his plastic is nice and sturdy, and what paint apps he does have...nice and crisp. His articulation is very impressive. Ab crunch, full ankle articulation (he's missing toes as they're all he needs to be perfectly articulated in the lower leg), etc. Nice light piping, one of the best head sculpts I've seen in a while. And he's not much smaller (or possibly on par) with SS-05 Optimus. I think people forget how tiny he is.

 

That model does seem to be something that HasTak are increasingly open to. Look at WFCE Cliffjumper, Legacy Blitzwing, WFC Astrotrain, SS86 Hot Rod etc.

I think part of the perception issue with this is that is a bloody fantastic figure. No one tried to hold the Bumblebee movie mainline figures to a higher standard because they were universally very simple.

 

Sorry, but "it's for kids" doesn't fly as an excuse for me. If it's at a certain pricepoint, I expect a certain level of quality, and the artificial distinction between "kids' line" and "collectors' line" is irrelevant. The only distinction should be that the kids' line is more focused on features than "accuracy" (I feel dirty just typing the word).

Hell, half the time I prefer the "kids' line" stuff to what's "for us". I just want a fun toy that interprets the character well, and IDGAF about "accuracy" (PTUI!) But this just doesn't jump out at me as Voyager quality. It looks on a par with the deluxe DOTM Optimus, which isn't an insult - that figure rocks. But even ignoring the smaller size, that wasn't a Voyager-quality figure either.

The kid/collector distinction is especially arbitrary given my main complaint, how the feet are handled in altmode, is a recurring theme in the so-called collectors' line. This guy would fit in just fine with SS86 Hot Rod and Scourge. I didn't think either of them were worth the Voyager price, either.

But getting back to Prime, it's a cool toy, but IMO it's not $30-$35 worth of cool.

 

You mentioned 07 movie Ironhide:

Also:

Exactly. SS was the first main retail line where hasbro said bluntly "we are going for somewhat accurate scaling".

The more I looked at the figure vs the CGI, the more I realized this is true. I'm much more used to looking at the BBM design (which IMO is better than the one from the new film), and that one had more detail and color, but when I compared to the actual character model this is trying to represent, it's fairly accurate. I think it comes down to the ugly light gray, and people misremembering what the character's supposed to look like. One of those things is hasbro's fault, and one isn't. People even wondered why he has those "wing" things by the smoke stacks, not bothering to look at an image of the actual truck.

Then why come in and comment on this thread, if it's not a figure that you'd be interested in anyways?

 

Because I wanted to see if it was something I’d be interested in, perhaps?

 

I'm not sure why they dropped the ball on the Bumblebee mainline figures, but they absolutely did. If Has/Tak put out a Core Class with a bunch of accessories and sold it as a Leader, they know we'd walk away from it and the sales would be horrendous. We might think they're stupid, they might think the same of us, but both sides know that's a bridge too far. 3rd party gets away with it because it's MP quality and looks better than the official product, plus they're a smaller company so people feel more inclined to give them money rather than fill Hasbro shareholder pockets. (Some of whom are here on this board and chances are they've bullied a fellow poster or two. Who wants their money going to that?)

It absolutely should fly as an excuse for you because it's factual. Facts don't care about your feelings one friggin' bit. Hasbro sets the pricepoint because they have to kiss the asses of their shareholders and give them their money back. It's a legal Ponzi Scheme in which they use OUR money to refund the people who fund them at a higher level. Can't keep within the budget and kiss their asses without corners being cut. I'm not a super fan of the current pricing, but it is what it is. The line between the kids' line and the collectors' line is not irrelevant. That's just a silly statement.

You keep thinking back to when there was only ONE line for Transformers and you either loved it or you didn't. We no longer live in the age of the Unicron Trilogy or RID2001/Car Robots, etc. Those days are well and truly dead. You can thank the movies for that. Gimmicks were banned because the majority whined about them and wanted them gone and they got their wish. At first, it worked out for us because we received a rather accurate (not perfect!) Bayverse Optimus without a horrible backpack (due to electronics being removed) in the MPM line, and to a lesser extent, the Studio Series line. (Rather inaccurate in spots, but a nice figure.)

Gimmicks are gone, for the most part, and when they are included, they're pretty terrible. Accuracy is the one thing they can share as a gimmick. If you take all of the "fun" out of a figure, it might as well do something other than look like those shampoo bottle plastic Titans you can get for $10.00 at Walgreens.

And I can tell you, this Prime and Primal have the exactly same quality as SS, just less paint apps (appropriate in both cases) and they're slightly smaller (but still Voyager Class figures. Optimus isn't much smaller (if at all) than SS-05/SS-44 Prime and Primal is exactly the same as Kingdom). They're worth the money, honestly.

This *is* a fun toy that interprets the character well. And it is mostly accurate without much effort. It doesn't jump out as Voyager quality because you don't have it in hand. Find a friend who has one and take a good close look in person. It's a solid, dense figure with nice (but minimal) paint apps and tremendous detail. Articulated out the wazoo. Full-range ankles? Check. Smooth transformation? Check. Ab-crunch? Check. Ball-jointed wrists? Check. His light-piping is reminiscent of old-skool "WOW LOOKIT THAT!" figures with the same feature. It's a really, really nice figure and I actually prefer it to the SS-38 by leaps and bounds. (And I like the SS-38!) A good, fun, simple transformation plus nailing the look? Win in my book.

It's absolutely a Voyager-quality figure, you just don't know that yet. I've handled and owned some crap figures in my day, they don't hold a candle to this guy.

...his feet would definitely be more complex in the SS line. SS86 Hot Rod is worth the Voyager price when you see the parts count and paint apps. I don't understand why people can't process that more parts and more paint = more money. I don't get where they think this extra plastic and metal (screws/pins) and paint come from. What ass(es) do you think they're pulling it all from? I just can't process how people think "Oh, wow! This should be the same!" And SS86 Scourge/Sweep is absolutely a Voyager. C'mon, now. You're just letting your personal desire overtake the facts. I don't play that game, and neither should you.

And I have to agree with Shmoptimus below: "Then why come in and comment on this thread, if it's not a figure that you'd be interested in anyways?"

In a way, I'm kind of grateful they did it this way. It shows that they're at least trying to work with the filmmakers (within reason) to get these as accurate as possible. What baffles me is how SS seems to be less on the ball in that department than the mainline is. Sometimes that vehicular accuracy for licensing's sake, and that incessant need to get everything to fit inside this shell or that shell comes at a cost, and the mainline doesn't have to pay that cost. It looks good and is slightly more affordable, as well as a good bit more fun. Win/win for me, I think.

But you've made it clear that it really isn't at this point, and you've made that point, so why beat a dead horse and bring the negativity? Both sides know where they stand on this figure, no point in going on and on about it. Go find a thread/figure that does make you happy. Don't waste time on something that doesn't.

 

All I did was type one sentence expressing my shock at something which looks like a deluxe being sold at Voyager pricing. One short statement expressing my initial impression based on those few pictures. Three fucking words.

I’d have left it at that had you not chosen to challenge me on that one statement. If you don’t want a debate, then don’t tempt me into one. You’re not the first person to go after me for an isolated statement and then act like I’m “bringing the negativity” when I respond with an elaboration. If you don’t want me to discuss the topic with you, then don’t f-ing respond and let the single post go. I’d had no intention of going any further until YOU chose to come after me for typing - I say again - three fucking words.

ANd while you’re at it, knock off the condescension. I tried to reply to you respectfully from my POV; I’d appreciate the same in return.

I don’t even see where I was being that negative. It’s a good figure, just not IMO (notice that? It’s an indication of an OPINION!) worth the asking price.

Maybe I’ll be more impressed in person, but doing by those photos, I stand by my assessment that this looks comparable to the DOTM deluxe in quality. Meaning it’s a good design, but I don’t feel it’s worth Voyager pricing.

 

I'm glad the figure impresses you enough to defend it like this. I didn't say it was NOT a voyager. Obviously whatever Hasbro says is a voyager is a voyager. I did, however, say it's a small voyager. And that's just the truth. They could give him diamonds for eyes but he is still small. Overall I think he looks nice, but for his pricepoint it just kills me that he doesn't even have a melee weapon. All the cost cutting going in the SS Gamer Edition figures and that voyager Prime even gets a melee weapon. People are allowed to have criticism and disappointment AND then proceed to post that here and discuss it.