All the G1 characters were designed based on the engineering that already existed. That didn't stop anyone from altering the transformation engineering in subsequent versions of said characters.

 

Because there was a massive disparity between the toys and show models. The variations in engineering come from the fact that the cartoon models cheated massively, to say nothing of interpretations and re-imaginings years later. (Is Classics Mirage trying to faithfully replicate the cartoon design?)

Tarn and Kultur are both deliberately trying to replicate a design that had a mapped transformation to avoid cheating built-in. There’s no question of “where do Optimus Prime’s wheels go?” or “how much of Bumblebee’s roof should we use for the chest?” with Tarn because there’s no disparity in his design. Parts maintain size and shape between modes, there’s hardly any room for interpretation.

 

how tall was MMC'S Tarn compared to this?

 

Not necessarily, as the arm treads on their own form a complete set of treads on either side. His tank mode treads are weird in that there are four sets in parallel. So Bludgeon could easily lose the inner ones and BAM new chest. At this point, the safest bet is to see all Tarn’s bits that currently seem to have Bludgeon detail, and assume the other plastics are the ones that will be new molds.

 

Idk, probably. Maybe that's just the best they could do. Other figures in Classics certainly hit closer to the mark like Hound, Hotrod, and Starscream. Just because some figures didn't get as close doesn't mean close wasn't the goal.

There is no "desparity" in G1 Optimus Primes design either. Animation prime transforms more or less exactly like the G1 toy. Yet, subsequent iterations have successfully encorporated very different engineering to transition between modes.

This there can be only one way to do it argument might hold some water with characters like G1 Shockwave. The exceptions prove the rule though, not the other way around. The rule here being there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I don't know why you guys are even arguing it? No one has the toy in hand to compare with MMC. I only said I was looking forward to seeing how much shared engineering they have. I said it looks like a lot. Fact is I don't know and you don't know either. Frankly if I were Hasbro I'd steal anything I wanted from 3P. Turn about is fair play, but if I'll bet if they did(steal)they also improved on the MMC transformation.

 

He's a pretty big figure. About the size of the old Ultra class from the mainline. He was in that old 3P scale that really only MMC is still doing. Toyworld Orion, Hegemon, Maketoys X-Dimension, Igear Seekers, ect...

Way too big for the mainline imo. Though it's an excellent toy. Only edged out by their MP Arcee for my favorite MMC figure.

 

I mean, the fact that the toys all clearly deviate from the Sunbow models and original toys makes it pretty obvious they weren't trying to replicate the show. Mirage is in no way attempting to replicate the G1 cartoon.

  He absolutely does not. Where do the wheels go? Were do the sides of his abdomen come from? How does his bumper form a proper pelvis from a flat surface?

The variations in Prime's transformations over the years have all been in regards to answering these questions. (ignoring obvious deliberate reinventions like the Classics mould) Sometimes they don't even try to hide the wheels on his legs, sometimes they try to hide his front wheels and sometimes they don't. Optimus doesn't transform like the toy because the toy is solid moving parts and not morphing cartoon mush that loses 7-% of the alt mode between forms.

And yet even using your example, well, every Optimus Prime toy does transform similarly. The legs are always the rear section where the wheels go. The arms always form the sides f the cab. The head always pops out of the top. They're always trying to get as close to the cartoon model as possible, and the variation comes from figuring out why to do with all the parts that appear and disappear at random. That variation isn't necessary when the source material doesn't cheat.

But with Tarn there isn't, because his transformation doesn't employ any obvious cheating. (and I only say obvious because he's still a 2D drawing and slight proportional differences will occur) The treads are all the same size and all persist between modes. His transformation isn't that complex (again, because Alex Milne deliberately designed him with a plausible transformation scheme) and there really isn't more than one way to skin a cat when there's so few steps to the skinning process.

Because what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

 

I don’t think so, really. There are parts of him that are very loosely inspired by the cartoon design, but he feels more like “what if G1 Mirage had a Formula 1 dragster mode during Beast Machines”, in my opinion.

 

As I recall, and I may be wrong, wasn't one of the working titles for Classics supposed to be "Generation 3"?

I think there was a deliberate effort to make the designs "forward leaning", "the next step". So, for example, Grimlock's design was an update of his Pretender robot mode.

I think the intent with Classics was for everything to essentially be set after the end of G1.

 

It kind of was, in a way. The FunPub comics were set after the Marvel G1 US comic, but ignored G2 completely. It’s basically a splinter timeline that serves as an alternate G2.

 

Except his color scheme, alt mode, and name. Considering how many of the initial classics figure are very much trying to be G1 and the moniker "Classics". I'll stick to my opinion that some are simply more successful than others. Maybe part of it's due to licensing, but I honestly don't know.

While G1 Prime may not have the most accurate bot or alt mode to the cartoon, the toys transformation is the basis of the animation.

No, not really. Even Siege and ER Primes have strikingly different transformations to achieve similar alt modes. In the Masterpiece and legends realm the similarities of both modes are even more apparent while the steps to realize them are further departed. Yes, the legs are the back and the torso is the cab. In many instances the steps to achieve that vary greatly though.

So if the transformation isn't identical you're wrong? Because with Tarn it can only be achieved one way, the way it was drawn in a 2d comic book. So that Iron factory Tarn must share the identical transformation with MMCs Tarn too.

You mean when I said it looks like really similar engineering to the MMC one?

Or when I said no one has it in hand so we don't know how similar it actually is yet?

When I outrageously claimed that more than one way exists for the vast majority of Transformers toys to get from one mode to the next?

Which statement doesn't make sense, and I'll elaborate for you.

 

For me, it's because it looks similar to the Iron Factory Tarn (which is awesome and really accurate hence making this new one both of those).

It looks amazing and I can't wait to have it in hand, they nailed it

 

"Basis" and "is a 1:1 recreation" are not the same thing. Again, the wheels just disappear, and his body parts morph to fit both modes. It is clearly not the same as the toy diagram.

Classics Mirage doesn't have the same alt mode as the G1 version at all. Nor does the robot mode match his G1 cartoon model much at all. By that logic the Voyager AOE Evasion Prime is a direct update of the G1 character.

I feel like we've drifted so far from the original point if you think this is what I'm trying to say. Maybe I over-complicated it with comparisons instead of making my point succinct:

Tarn's design doesn't cheat. G1 Optimus' cartoon design does. If two parties are going to recreate the non-cheating design as accurately as possible then they are of course going to appear similar and/or have similar engineering. This doesn't work with Optimus because any party attempting to replicate his design will have to come up with their own solutions to avoid cheating, since toy's can't do that. It's as simple as that.

I'm not saying Tarn and Kultur have to share engineering or even that they will, but that of course they will look similar because they're both adapting the same, singular design with as few liberties as possible. Hopefully I've made my point more clear this time.

 

Wonder if I will be able to fit an LED Inside his chest to light up the clear pink bits.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ishikawa_sunday/status/1598300289337286656

 

Now comes the question, does the first wave of next years product hit the US in December like it used to, or do we still have Covid distribution and it’ll be another 4 months?

 

Alternate time: February.

Not too early or late.

 

Bit taller than I'd thought he'd be. Nice.

Where are his back antennas?

 

Turned downwards. You can still see them.

 

Now we just need a non-sh*tty Earth mode Megatron to go alongside him