Why cybertronians don't combine fighting with transforming ?
As in, going from vehicle mode to robot mode, back and forth, always on the move with the momentum so they can shoot or do melee while moving fast as possible/very fast

 

When you said "combine fighting with transforming", I thought you meant why don't Cybertronians use the "very act of transforming" to fight, so in other words, the very act of transformation would be the means of damage to the opponent.

In terms of your clarification, I would say that it makes sense on the surface

 

Good question. It is a vastly underused idea and I think it comes down largely to the subconscious idea that robot modes are the "battle mode." I think a lot of it is the limitations of certain media, where transformations are generally very animation-intensive. In cel-animation it's a bit more of a feat outside of stock footage, and in 3D ones transformation is often (but not always) a stock cycle worked into the character models.

Why the scene with Starscream fighting the F-22s in TF07 wasn't the new standard for transformation-based combat bewilders me. I'd take that shit over the characters standing and shooting any day.

 

Honestly, outside of the movies, the only main example I can think of is in the S1 G1 intro, when Skywarp grabs Jazz and throws him away, he transforms mid-throw, races back around, and transforms again to punch Skywarp in the face. The reasoning I could see that this isn't common is because transformation takes effort and concentration, which battle isn't particularly conducive for, but I honestly can't think of a series that's treated it that way without tossing it out the window for the sake of cool action sequences multiple times, so I'm betting it's just because that's hard to animate. It can be done, but is it worth the time and effort to show it off?

 

The answer ought to be yes.

But sadly the core gimmick of Transformers seems very under-utilized these days. Hell, look how many characters didn't even transform in the Netflix series.

 

Not necessarily about transformation in fighting but one aspect I liked during three battles across the franchise was how certain characters didn't just fight like humans.

In G1 Fire in the Sky when Prime fights Megatron, Megatron vaults over Prime, momentarily hardstanding on Prime's shoulders while rotating his lower body 180 degrees, landing and rotating back to normal stance while swinging his arm into Prime.

Prime also spins the crystal shard at high speed by rotating his wrists.

Secondly, the Bonecrusher fight in the 07 movie where Bonecrusher uses his tail to strike at Prime.

Thirdly in the Bumblebee movie, where Blitzwing is lying prone on the ground but uses his feet mounted thrusters to propel himself out of the way of Bumblebee's leap and into a hovering position.

I think this kind of fighting style looks more interesting than the traditional human style fights we mostly get.

Transformation can also add to fights whether like the well known Jazz vs Skywarp scene in the original theme tune or the PS2 Armada game where you could transform your character and ram opponents.

I suppose Soundwave or Blaster launching their cassettes to attack opponents comes under the transformation in combat criteria. Same with combining during a battle.

Similarly a character with a Beast mode launching themselves into the air, transforming to pounce on an opponent.

 

Like Capoeira, where brazilian slaves choreographed tribal dances to musical instruments being played, so that their masters would not suspect that they were actually training in a brutal martial arts style for an impending uprising.

I also recall the comic that came packed with Orion Pax, which showed him learning to burst through his transformation sequence for maximum efficiency. But he was warned by veterans of the art that those who became addicted to the practice often caused permanent and irreparable damage to their T-cog.

 

Great observation! I always assumed that it was time and resources by the creators. Creating a whole new fighting style is hard, especially for an alien species that has exponentially more options with their bodies than humans.

I think audiences would lose track if there wasn't something "human" about the movements/actions of the Transformers. My main thought it is the more non-humanoid forms in the movies; sometimes I didn't understand what I was looking at.

That being said, I would love more creativity in fighting. Maybe the comics have more flexibility to do so? Even partial transformations, like robotech Gerwalk for example, could open up a lot of possibilities.

 

When Bumblebee does this exact maneuver in the Bumblebee film against Dropkick, I cheered.

Absolutely. As stated, though, the problem is the time and effort when contrasted with the medium. To effectively string out a combat sequence in live action, you would have to choreograph every single action in order to stage the true life elements and underlay the CGI with it. One of the many limitations of the Live Action medium that I feel keeps the franchise from its full potential, a full CGI film ala maybe Polar Express would be able to give us more "Mad Max except the cars are also throwing knuckle sandwiches at each other" esque combat.

 

I would say it's mainly because writers don't wanna bother with choreographing such a thing, more technical problems and human problems(laziness), but I would love to see this utilized more. Hell, we saw this in Bumblebee even if for a split second, and even if it was just an homage to G1's first opening sequence.

 

Smokescreen would often use his smoke in car mode to blind opponents long enough for him to transform and blast them. G1 Megatron often transformed into gun mode mid combat, as would any tank based Transformer like Warpath, Brawl, or Blitzwing, while the Seekers took to the skies to attack from the air. Tracks also had moments battling Decepticons in the sky more than once. Sky Lynx used his multiple modes against the Predacons too. Optimus Prime barreled into the factory in truck mode, crashing Megatron through a wall in Fire on the Mountain.

My favorite use of alt modes during combat was Hot Rod vs Galvatron in the Movie. Hot Rod slammed into Galvatron several times with hit and runs, while Galvatron used his cannon mode to throw Hot Rod off balance. The final confrontation involved Hot Rod running, shooting, transforming, driving with high beams to blind Galvatron before crashing into him.

I agree though. I wish it was used more frequently.

 

because it'd be insanely expensive to animate. It'd be cool no question but some times it's just gotta be two groups firing lasers at each other.

 

Transformation as a combat skill - it could be either for stealth, which is the whole Robots in Disguise concept, or for maneuvering around surroundings for better movement.

An instance of the latter - in DOTM, Bumblebee flipped from car to robot and back in rescuing a plummeting Sam and Lennox.

We should see more scenes like that, but they'd require the alternate mode to be an effective advantage.

 

Bee also rolled backwards and transformed, drive backwards over some rubble and pop back into robot mode to dodge an attack by sentinel. The movies did have this happen a couple of times throughout. Megatron also excelled at doing this in the final episode of beast machines. He used that optimal body much better than primal ever did.

I also tend to do this while playing the ps2 game, but that's really the only one where i feel it's useful for combat. Ironically being the only one with no alt mode weapons. I would love to see this happen more often, but i guess it's just too time consuming on the animators for a weekly show. Or the choreographer of the shows just don't have the ability to make such things look good?

 

I’d imagine using transformation as a combat element would make the animators and writers put a lot more effort into it, when basic shooting or using their vehicle mode would suffice. So it saves time, money and resources for them.

 

Oh goodness! It’s the man himself from YouTube! Greetings from one of your subscribers and Patreon backers!

 

Does it make no sense under deeper inspection ?

But is there an in-universe reason for that ?

Don't you mind the lack of an in-universe explanation ?

 

Ah, you're back.

Your zero tolerance policy for lack of thoroughly-thought-out technology would be very useful in a creative consultant position, but probably not in an executive position. I personally am an advocate for more logic in Transformers as well, but take it far enough and the very concept of Transformers will unravel.

 

We see that in the final moments of this episode (19:12 onwards):

It's also pretty much Sixshot's fighting style, a short example of which can be seen here (17:43 onwards). Then again, he also often uses all forms at once.

(side note: that shot of the Battleship Maximus arriving at 18:45 is really cool)

The 2007 Starscream scene has of course been mentioned

There's also the Jetfire vs. seekers scene:

This isn't really about momentum, but several times in G1 season 3, Galvatron would transform, fire off a single shot in cannon mode then transform back.

We should absolutely have more of this sort of thing.

 

Maybe the Bots like to fight in robot more? That’s all I can tell you.