It's a throwaway joke.

Crasher also quotes Julius Caesar in Battle of the Rocklords, so that must make it a Shakespearean epic.

 

Hmm yes, a bad enough joke that caused a well known actor to quit the show entirely.

A quote doesn’t compare to the political tones from the cartoon. But you do you friend.

 

I always always love people who say stupid things like "all art is inherently political" or simply use art as a medium in which to ram their political opinion down your throat. Most people prefer art for aesthetic purposes, or entertainment purposes. They will rarely care about any underlying political message you're trying to interpret. Indeed, whole shows, art pieces etc have sailed past people's heads on underlying political messages because they're too busy enjoying the work itself.

Personally, I think art should be mostly divorced from politics. The result of trying to turn art political is almost always crappy art. There is nothing more boring than an author tract. When people complain about art being political, the latter is what they are complaining about. There’s a big difference between political messaging and propaganda. Propaganda isn’t art, it’s only made to push an agenda.

 

That’s such a false equivalency, though. You’re comparing tasteless humour to inherent meaning of a brand. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to imply, that Casey Kasem quit over the political parallels of the Transformer's war? That doesn’t add up at all. Carbombya was a rather blatant, distasteful political joke isolated to the poor writing of the cartoon, (of which there are numerous other, non-political examples) not inherent to the brand at all.

 

No I’m not, all I said the joke was so bad Casey Kasem had to call it quits. I am done with this debate. Politics is bad enough already. Our arguments will not change each other minds. I wish you a good day.

 

Fair enough. I meant no animosity and if you're good with dropping it so am I.  

 

Transformers isn't a direct allegory for real-world politics, but the politics of the creators definitely work their way into the fiction, whether intentional or not.

Like, someone made the decision for the hero to be the red white and blue American semi truck (whereas making that toy the villain would have conveyed a very different message). That's not really anything too "deep", but it's definitely an example of the storytellers' politics influencing the fiction. Similarly, the whole resource war plot definitely has parallels to real-world events. Do you think that stuff would have been part of the story if Transformers had been created ay a different country in a different decade? These were issues on the mind of the storytellers, and they put it in the show.

Heck, making civil war the central focus is inherently political. They didn't really have to have hero and villain robots, they could have made all the Transformers good guys who help humanity, or all of them evil invaders who oppose humanity. Or made them built my humans in another country. And even those plots would convey their own political messages.

I get what you're trying to say, but I disagree. I don't think all art is trying to push a political message, but all art is created by people who have a political worldview, and that worldview is going to seep into what they create. Even if it's just surface level things that don't seem political. Even trying to create something devoid of politics says something about the creators' political stance.

 

One could argue it was more likely a marketing tool, separate from the creator's own bias because red/white/blue American heroes sell.

But would you consider this on the same level as someone intentionally adding messages into their work?

My issue with the idea that all work is political regardless of intention is you're basically forcing a level of accountability onto the creators they never asked for or intended. It also, as I said, grievously diminishes the efforts of those who do intentionally politicize their works because now their efforts are put on the same level as a Freudian slip. Is Transformers now the same war allegory as something as direct and overt as Gundam? Something that actually depicted war in the Middle East as well as rather blatant metaphors and social commentary?

It's also just too broad and messy to really deconstruct when you approach media form the conclusion that it has a political message, rather than reaching that conclusion case-by-case. As pointed above, what is the political message of Optimus Prime's colours and alt mode? Is it a subconscious inclination to pro-America imagery, or an attempt at broad marketing appeal because of the popularity of that imagery? Perhaps neither, and the colour combination is just the default contrast of primary colours that is most visually appealing, especially to children, and the truck alt mode is merely the logical choice of the available moulds to represent the leader as the largest character given the decision to make most of the heroes cars was largely the inverse of the more generic idea that the villains would be weapons and devices? Without knowing the creators' intent it becomes impossible to choose any of these three possibilities as the correct interpretation, and assuming all three are valid more or less nulls the notion of political intent. And even accepting one of those three options, is that the same level as something with direct allegories and intent?

And that's the key word: intent. Judging people, and I mean that not as condemning or praise but merely coming to conclusions, for the works they produce based on perceived intent rather than actual intent seems unfair and counter-productive. It also distracts from the actual merit and intent if you're focused on applying your own appraisal in spite of it. Transformers was never meant to be political, and any allegories gleaned from it are unintentional or coincidental and merely a product of their time. But people can not be judged by hindsight for things they couldn't possibly be aware of at the time of creating. Even the notion that everything is political is itself a staple of modern times and our looking back and over-analyzing all media with a bias that there must be political meaning.

 

What is hilarious is the fact that I am pretty certain this is why certain IDW 1 writers had to make sure that the decepticons were sympathetic and the autobots weren't, as they viewed G1 through the 'Merica vs Communism lense.

 

Happy 52nd Birthday to "Why can't your stories just be escapist?"

 

I'm of a different mindset. If a show has to be political, or have political undertones, then by all means do it. Just make up your mind as a director/writer what to do with the series going forward, and have a good direction without diverting from your original goal.

On the subject of "No political BS" I respect that opinion. G1 wasn't inherently political in any shape or form. Carbombya was a gaffe, but not a staple of the undertones of the show. Other shows however, were more political than G1. (Animated, and BM come to mind) So take that as you will.

I will say that regardless on which side of the political spectrum you're in, hopefully we can all agree on one saying that's often forgetten, and that's to agree to disagree. Often than not, I see too much mean spirited comments on the internet these days, be it social media or forums like this. Let's all be better.  

 

What Stan said and what the smooth brained redditors who usually post this image are taking from it are two very different things.

What Stan is really saying is "Everyone has political biases and some of that is bound to show in the art they make, even if they try to stay neutral." While redditors use Lee's argument as an excuse to justify overt propaganda.

Political messages in works are totally fine as long as the concern is the art rather than the message. Same with politcal analysis of non-political works. The problem is the idea works on the assumption that what you take from a work is the be all end all. "Everything is political" really means "everything is political for me" without the consideration G1 might just be a dumb toy commercial about robots.

 

Okay. I don't know what the Redditors have to do with the discussion, though.

 

People say that "all art is inherently political" because politics go hand-in-hand with culture and you cannot have art without culture. Take a story with a woman as a an active and independent protagonist and show it to a culture which considers women inferior and "obviously" subservient to men. Suddenly something that seemingly wasn't political originally, becomes very political. Now consider that it doesn't even have to be a foreign culture that is exposed to a story or any other art piece, but technically the same culture, but in a different period of time. I can guarantee that some old people were upset about the Sunbow cartoon and cosidered it too political, it's just that these sort of things had harder time circulating back then.

 

Because that's where stupid as hell takes usually originate.

That is where applicability vs allegory comes in.

 

I don’t know how this thread became about politics in Transformers but I would say it’s okay to touch political themes as long as it’s handled well

 

Because "all art is political" which means KISS Players is actually a pretty deep take on the sustainability of the Japanese population via reproduction.  

Seriously, though, someone off handily said something like "please don't be overtly political" and a dozen or so responses of

Later, here we are.

 

Don't make me tap the sign...

 

You can't tell a story about war without being political. Because the things both sides fight for are representative of what the creators think are "good" or "evil."

What they think will make readers root for the heroes or hate the villains is also a reflection on what they think audiences want. As artists will also sometimes make stories that appeal to the politics of the audience.

 

this is twitter level dialogue, what is wrong with you guys