I absolutely agree neither of us are wrong. We each took away something different from the story and characters.

I never watched Beast Machines when it first aired. I thought the animation looked odd, and I didn't care for the redesigns/upgrades of the characters. But several years ago, I found the series on dvd for a pretty decent price so I figured, what the heck. I watched it and found it, much to my surprise, to be quite enjoyable. It's a great mystery that unravels slowly and actually allows the audience to fill in some of the blanks on their own without everything having to be spelled out. I've come to enjoy it almost as much as Beast Wars and see it as a worthy, if somewhat different, successor.

 

Amen to that

 

That has nothing to do with the argument and you know it. And as a famous narrative put it, "That's a story for another time."

 

It's fine if you watch it as an alternate universe version of events after The Beast Wars.

Personally, The Rebirth and the end of The Beast Wars would be great places to me for Hasbro to pick up where they left off with new continuing series and act like Beast Machines never happened.

 

I really don’t know it and don’t really know what the actual argument is. Why are two out of three vehicons material but the third isn’t?

 

Kill it with fire.

 

No, they didn't. The show explicitly says they don't.

There's a whole scene where Primal even holds up a little hologram of their heads being like "I can't believe we forgot these guys, we have to find them on top of the rest of the population!" I'm honestly not sure how you can watch BM and think that the Maximals assumed they were dead when remembering them was such a big deal.

Yes, it is, Rattrap says so. I quoted him saying so.

It didn't cause them to "lose years," it damaged their memories, not erased them. They had trouble remembering, but they made no assumptions based on that, it's not like their minds were wiped. If it was a clean wipe of years they wouldn't remember each other, which they did, but only once their memories were jogged upon meeting each other again.

Then what's Blackarachnia's excuse? "Oh, it's you." She says, after capturing the Maximals in her web in clear view from her vantage point?

I'd give you Rattrap were it not for the fact that Rattrap visibly looks confused upon seeing Primal. Even after getting a good look he has to think a moment, with an animated head tilt and everything.

Yes, because they saw each other, just like they remembered Silverbolt and Rhinox as soon as the two's identities were revealed.

If they had not forgotten Silverbolt and Rhinox, why was Blackarachnia having cryptic dreams about him that she couldn't recall? Would she not just think he was dead? Her not remembering Silverbolt is the entire crux of the plot that leads to her discovering their shuttle and confirming their two missing comrades. Again, this is all plainly spelled out in the show.

I mean, it certainly is, but no, not in this particular case.   The show clearly states they forgot Rhinox and Silverbolt, and never even implies they were presumed dead. Rattrap says "why don't we remember the other two?" What possible way could that sentence be construed as "we thought they were dead?" If you lost a best friend and someone mentions them, do you say "yeah right, if I had a best friend why can't I remember them?" No, you say "holy shit my BFF is alive!?"

I'm not trying to be like a bully or anything because I know you're a fan of the show too, but your position genuinely perplexes me. It's not a case of "the show didn't specify and thus it could be either way" (which does happen, and as you said, is usually intentional) the show specifically says that they were forgotten and not presumed dead. In fact the question of if they're still alive is only brought up after the two were discovered in the shuttle, so why would they be so melancholy at the thought of their teammates possibly being dead if they already thought they were dead?

 

You need to rewatch the show because it never says they completely forgot Silverbolt and Rhinox. If it clearly stated it then we wouldn't be having this discussion. They had memory glitches from the end of the BW up till the point we find them at in episode 1. The show clearly states they didn't remember Silverbolt and Rhinox being with them when they landed, it never states that Rhinox and Silverbolt were completely forgotten. They didn't remember the other 2 because they didn't remember the trip home in it's entirety.

 

"Why don't we remember the other two?"

How is that not a clear statement? They do not remember the other two.

Hence me being so perplexed by your argument.

But how does that translate to "they thought they were dead?" I'm not saying they forgot the entirety of the Beast Wars, just that they forgot large sections of their lives. (faulty memory does not equal chronological gaps. You can still remember a conflict and not the details or even who was part of it) Why would, if they did not remember landing on Cybertron, that then translate to an unspoken assumption by all four that these two guys (one of which was the love of those four) were simply dead and not have any sort of acknowledgment? Why then would Optimus be vowing to find them? If they were presumed dead, what would the knowledge that they were on the shuttle do to challenge that assertion? Clearly their problems only started once they reached Cybertron.

Also, if Blackarachnia didn't forget Silverbolt, how do you explain her dreams/visions of him? Why would she be confused and unsure of what they mean if she not only remembered Silverbolt but also assumed he was dead?

Your argument just doesn't follow any chain of logic applied to it, and is clearly in stark contrast to what the show depicts. Nobody ever states or implies they were dead.

 

Not remembering the other 2 (Rhinox and Silverbolt) in the context of the conversation that was being had at the time doesn't automatically mean they don't remember them at all. It was in regards to the 6 passengers on the Autobot shuttle and them not remembering who the other 2 passengers were in the specific context of them being passengers on the shuttle (a time period they didn't remember to begin with, so not remembering 2 passengers is a moot point really). You interpret it as them not remembering Rhinox and Silverbolt at all (least as far as I can tell) and I interpret it as them not remembering those specific memories that are being talked about at that time. From my perspective you are taking the memory loss out of context and applying it to memories that aren't being talked about in the show. I'd really appreciate it if you could refrain from insults (saying my argument lacks "any chain of logic"). Your interpretation isn't the only interpretation. I also never said that the characters actually thought Rhinox and Silverbolt were dead, I said it was a possible conclusion to draw from the perspective of the Maximals prior to discovering that those 2 characters were on the shuttle back to Cybertron with them.

 

Beast Machines is excellent. It’s aged very, very well.