Beep, beep, beep

Oh boy, is it time to be pretentious again?

 

 

I was partly joking. But my point is that Unicron isn’t something that’s exclusive to the Bay movies. I’m pretty sure most continuities have included him.

 

Wait till we get concept arts, more info and a trailer. This thread is gonna be a great time!

 

Heck it's not even a "Bay == Unicron" either. Cause Bay produced Bumblebee, just like he's producing this movie, and there wasn't any sign of Unicron insight.

Heck Bay even fought to let the Studio allow Travis to do his own thing when the Studio was worried about how BB was going, so if anything there's a good chance Unicron showing up won't be because of Bay's influence.

 

And actually, that's really all I and some of the other folks who are highly critical of these films, ever wanted.

However, we (the critical ones) are not completely convinced that it won't be a rehash of the same bull$#@% that came before-and we have that right. Why? It's like this: if the same ingredients that nearly landed Paramount in a coffin are being used again this time (i.e., cramming 5 factions in, cramming in 2 Titan-sized robots, cramming in some ancient place that holds a possible macguffin that a human or cybertronian must get to, and the like), why should we feel otherwise? Like I said before: these films must get my excitement, and enthusiasm the old-fashioned way: by earning it-and I charge a premium, LOL!!!!

Now, some positives: I actually think Prime's truck mode is beautiful, I like Nightbird's alt-mode (way overdue that these films are just now getting a character with a Japanese alt-mode), I like Arcee's altmode and looking forward to seeing her robot mode, I'm looking forward to seeing the Maximal and Predacon designs, as well as curious about the other designs, too. At the end of the day, I want to like this film-but I will not apologize for requiring that the film earn it. Question: when one works a job, should the person that hired you for that job just accept anything you dish out? Especially if the quality of your work has repeatedly jeopardized the company where you both work? Think about it. We deserve better movies. We shall see when the film comes out. . .

 

I mean, there is nothing wrong with being skeptical about it's quality. I do share some of your concerns too actually. I'm mostly trying to be positive though, I'm willing to give the new director, Steven Caple Jr, benefit of the doubt.

But you are right about something, Paramount never learns their lesson.

 

It sounds like you are really working hard to convince yourself that making the Mirage a little more blue and removing its spoiler will make the movie quality perfect, fine. All I want to say is that we have not seen his robot mode yet, and no one can be sure if it is Jazz-like or not.

Similarly, the stolen insignias on the grille do not conflict with showing their owners being killed by Scourge. How can you be so sure that they will not show a montage about this? I just don't understand how to predict the context of each photo as soon as it is leaked.

For me, the real reason why Bayverse has been terrible since ROTF is its lack of continuous characterization/touching plot points, and superficial dialogue. Conspiracy theories linked to human history are actually the part that not bother me the least. Technically it can effectively combine the scenes between human and robot characters and increase the breadth of the story. The failure of TLK lies not in disrespect for human history, but in disrespect for the Transformers brand. There is no conflict between tracing the larger history and polishing the plot with inspiring writing, just go back to watch Sunbow’s King Arthur's Court episode. Lorenzo said at some point that they wanted this movie to maintain the same heart as TF1 and Bumblebee, yes I know he is a clown, but don’t forget that he represents Paramount’s decision.

 

They bit you seem to think I'm mad about...was me responding to somebody else about how showing Scourge actually doing the deed is a better cinematic narrative device vs. simply relying on the symbols alone to imply that which would be less effective and may not even register for some of the audience if they aren't shown the action.

Also, it's funny how everybody just up and ignored how I postulated that the presence of the Maximal symbols would imply that Scourge is from the future or is not entirely following a linear timeline, but why actually entertain legitimate observations when you can all be up in arms over my criticisms?

Oh, Bay has nothing to do with Unicron. That's entirely on Lorenzo/Paramont's doing there. Like I've said before, they refuse to comment on the state of if things are a reboot or not, as well as the fact Unicron is, within the breadth of literally all their properties, the best shot they have at setting up a villain long-term on the level of Thanos. They will not succeed, of course, because if this film is as loaded with plot points as we already know it's going to commit the same mistakes that all other non-MCU attempts at a cinematic universe have encountered, which is trying to rush the world building BEFORE establishing characters people actually care about who live in said world.

Well, that introduces this problem: if the car mode looks like Jazz, and the robot mode looks like Jazz...then why wouldn't they just call him Jazz? They don't have the name problem that would require a nameslap like in years past.

I was explaining why showing Scourge killing at least one previous owner and doing the deed would be a better visual narrative device instead of just leaving it unexplained.

Why are you believing anything Lorenzo says? This is the same guy who said that lore exists that shows Quintessa is both 6 billion years old and also was originally human, meaning humans built the Transformers (and yes, he actually said that). This is the same guy Hasbro had to censor back in February 2020 because of his comments about how Bumblebee was not a reboot and he might still get his way anyway.

 

Y'know if you're gonna have a problem with every single thing in this movie then why are you still lurking around the threads? This clearly isn't changing your tune so why stick around with something you know you aren't enjoying, just move on with your life and don't watch the movie.

 

I got the same response with regards to AoE back in 2014, and then again with TLK in 2017. I don't think this is really fair because there's more at stake with this film than just the quality of a film. The direction of the franchise itself will be determined if ROTB makes or breaks at the box office. And I see it crashing and burning because nothing was learned from TLK or Bumblebee.

The problem is the stagnation of the franchise. Where does one go if they don't want more of the same garbage movies that Paramount has been shoveled out for nearly 15 years now? I don't particularly care for G1 myself - frankly I think it's alright and I understand why it's the main incarnation, but we've been stuck with that for over five years as well. But there's literally nothing else in this franchise right now and ROTB basically will decide if we finally move on or if stagnation is truly the way to go.

This is why I am super critical. I do not think the current arrangement with Paramount is going to continue to do well with Transformers and seeing the same things with ROTB so far that plagued all of Bayverse and even Bumblebee...nobody can claim to be blindsided when the red flags were there all along and I've been pointing them out.

 

More or less my position as well. There's definitely things to be skeptical or even concerned about, but let's hope they stick the landing with this one.

 

You just made another hypothesis that Mirage's robot form must be the same as Jazz. I am starting to get bored with this.

 

In the unfortunate event this movie bombs, it may take down Paramount financially. Hasbro could opt to take the rights away and give it to another studio who will prob treat the IP better then Paramount.

However, I doubt the brand itself will be in trouble. Sure future movies from paramount might be called into question. But we will continue to get more cartoons, comics, figures and now video games from Hasbro regarding transformers

 

Because you brought it up first?

I'm guessing you meant Mirage, then?

Transformers itself is hardy enough that it will survive, but for big movies...those may not happen for another decade if ROTB fails, simply because the suits at the top will see it as a bad investment. I mean, the biggest proponent for the movies within Hasbro literally just died of cancer today and was made CEO in the first place largely due to his role with being an exec producer for the first film. The acting replacement has a background in marketing and likely would have the failure of TLK more on his mind as opposed to the early success of the bayverse he wasn't around for.

 

Thank you. I'm also willing to give Steven Caple, Jr., the benefit of the doubt. I like Creed II. At the same time, what makes me doubtful is the fact he's under Bay and Lorenzo. It's seemingly not like when Travis Knight was doing Bumblebee-seems that Bay and Lorenzo pretty much played the back while Travis did his thing, rendering a film which was largely a much better film than its 5 predecessors.

In contrast, with ROTB, we've seen a recent public discussion where Steven and Lorenzo were speaking about ROTB, and also, Bay showed back up, up to his old antics again. There was also an interview about Snake Eyes and Transformers where Lorenzo was spewing his usual brain-necrotizing yipyap. Now, given Bay and Lorenzo's history, and their place in the hierarchical relationship to Steven Caple, Jr. (the fact they are over Steven in the chain of command), as well as them showing more of themselves (as opposed to the Bumblebee film) do you see why that equation gives some of us the deep skepticism that it does? I sincerely hope I am wrong.

 

I personally hope Bay is just helping out with the action scenes nothing more. I didn’t like his tf films much but they had some good action scenes. Lorenzo seems to be the main issue, he keeps putting his foot in his mouth and it’s not helping anyone.

Ultimately I just hope they give Steven the space and freedom he needs to make a good film. This film after all brings in the beast wars characters and that is the main reason why I’m excited for it even if I’m keeping my hype levels in check.

 

I apologize for the confusion caused by my statement. The reason I brought it up is because based on your previous comments it is obvious that you treat it as a BB Blitzwing level case. I just want to say that as long as Mirage’s face doesn’t look like Jazz, it really doesn't matter what his alt mode is.

 

Thank you. I do agree that if the robot mode looks more like Mirage than Jazz, then the alt. mode is something I can overlook since it is ultimately a minor thing in the bigger picture. I still don't like that the alt. mode looks like Jazz so much, but its something I can live with if that is one of the worst things I can say about the final film if it somehow ends up being good.

 

I don't know how many times this has been said (not enough clearly) but if you want to argue over Mirage/Jazz, there's a separate thread where you can do just that. This thread is not the place for it.

ROTB Mirage vs Jazz Debate

Still, I find it odd that people can be so childish over a fictional character being a shiny silver and blue sports car.

 

This is why this community has so little foothold in pop culture anymore. We argue over things that are inherently pointless, while disregarding the fact that the company that holds the rights to our favorite product could not give less of a sh*t.